Powerboat Reports 150 Shoot Out

[johnrude]

I am surprized that this topic has not hit this message board yet. So before some etec basher wants to put his 2 cents in let me say the test is full of problems. The article is the poorly obtained and highly inaccurate fuel data and acceleration times. The writer, Chris Landry, obtained ALL fuel data, acceleration data and sound data with the outboard's trim in the FULL negative position. His explanation for this was that it was the only way he could think of to be fair and consistent. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our motor has a full 2 additional degrees of negative trim when compared to the competition. So, our motor paid a performance penalty with regard to ALL numbers due to this fact. By trimming our motor all the way down, additional drag, increased wetted surface, additional throttle position requirements, etc. resulted. The more drag that is exerted on a boat, the more horsepower is required to get the job done. So, ever data point of fuel and sound was taken with our motor "digging in" and keeping the boat on the water more than the competition. Of course, an actual customer would not operate this boat so blindly, but would adjust the trim for actual conditions. Our wider trim range and additional negative trim is of course an advantage for the consumer, as this feature helps any boat plane more quickly and more easily and can improve the ride of the boat in choppy or rough sea conditions. The only piece of data in the entire article that was taken without full negative trim was the top end speed reading, and as you can see, we blew everybody away.

The writer's comments of vibration and hesitation out of the hole was due to our very first production units (only a handful) having slight issues on certain applications. It just so happened that the motor that went to this shoot was one on those early motors and this application was one where the issues showed up. Both of those issues have since been effectively addressed.

It is unfortunate that the self proclaimed "experts" in the media do not possess even a basic understanding of what is required to obtain accurate performance data. Rest assured, there are plans in place to address this.

There are performance reports on this test but I do not know how to post the file. Im sure its on the Evinrude Web site. I am sure its posted on the Yamaha web site. I dont have the time right now to look into the sites and find the link.




Modified by johnrude at 5:03 PM 6/1/2006

[SEAHORSE]

I haven't read the complete report yet, but I understand that even trimmed in farther than the others, the 150 E-TEC was about 3 mph faster. It also was the quietest at cruise I was told.

They did use a Viper prop and so the mid-range fuel efficiency would not be as good as with using a Rebel prop.

[ibpoppin]

What are the slight improvements? Can my dealer perform these improvements as my motor engine model or serial number does not have a F suffix. My ends is "U".

[Neveredge]

Did you really expect the tests to be fair?

I think the jounalists have a bias. I also think that they think they don't have a bias. They try to be fair but they have the manufacturers tugging on their ears all the time and it makes it really hard to be objective. Not to mention changing rules and sometimes not completing tests or not believing test data because it doesn't fit pre-concieved notions.

[e-tec_angler]

I for one am glad to see this post. I've been on numerous other sites and the guys with the other makes use this like the word of god. I don't have any experience with anything larger than a 90hp E-TEC so far...a 115hp will be next. I've run 50hp, 75hp and 90hp E-TEC's against the other makes and the E-TEC has always been the quickest and fastest. These comparisons were done on same year, same make aluminum hulls with SS props running at top RPM range. Guys can bash all they want about E-TEC, but I'm yet to see a reason to have anything but an E-TEC on any of my transoms.

[MigAz]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by e-tec_angler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I for one am glad to see this post. I've been on numerous other sites and the guys with the other makes use this like the word of god. I don't have any experience with anything larger than a 90hp E-TEC so far...a 115hp will be next. I've run 50hp, 75hp and 90hp E-TEC's against the other makes and the E-TEC has always been the quickest and fastest. These comparisons were done on same year, same make aluminum hulls with SS props running at top RPM range. Guys can bash all they want about E-TEC, but I'm yet to see a reason to have anything but an E-TEC on any of my transoms. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I couldn't have said that better!

[Fletch]

Someone posted the full report on another site but quickly pulled it off due to copyright restrictions I presume. I did get to see it but only for a few minutes. The Rude didn't fare nearly as bad as some have made it sound.

Every test I've seen thus far has been biased. And depending on the rag doing the test, it can be obvious or very suttle. I remember reading one (I think it was Bass and Walleye Boats) that was touted as being very biased and objective. Of course, the ETEC took a beating in that shootout and the Opti was held high on a pedestal. I remember looking through the magazine and seeing a mag that was chock full of Merc ads and pictures yet contained only ONE BRP ad. And a couple months later, the same mag came out and admitted that they knew of some flaws and inconsistencies that were inherent in the test yet failed to mention it in the initial article. If I remember correctly, one part of it referred to a mismatch in the lower units that put the Rude at a disadvantage. I think there were a few other points along the same vein as well. I wonder how many people read the first article and took it as gospel but never saw the followup?

[Neveredge]

Bass and Walleye boats did mention the gearcase issue in the article. However they failed to mention that no dyno tests were done and even suggested that the dyno results would be posted on their website. Kinda hard to do if you don't have any dyno tests to report.

The big thing about the dyno is that the merc which won the shootout was not tested (niether were the other 2) ...(deleted rest of sentence, unsubstantiated accusation) This alone should have been reason enough for the editors to pull the story.

Very few Bullets can go 90 mph with a 225 and a light load, let alone a standard weight boat (an XDC even) with 2 people on board and full fuel tank.

I have yet to hear of a consumer who has that set up running 90+. I do pesonelly know of several Bullets that have more power and they do not hit 90+ with that load.

Did the Evinrude deserve to win? No, they showed up with a piece of crap for a gearcase and tried to get the rules changed to allow it. If it wasn't ready they should have postponed the test.

I am not going to tell all I know about this test and a couple more because I will be called a liar and I cannot defend my words without giving someone up who can prove it. I know, conspircy theories.. Yada yada yada.

[SEAHORSE]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neveredge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bass and Walleye boats did mention the gearcase issue in the article. However they failed to mention that no dyno tests were done and even suggested that the dyno results would be posted on their website. Kinda hard to do if you don't have any dyno tests to report.

The big thing about the dyno is that the merc which won the shootout was not tested (niether were the other 2) which would have shown that it was not a 225 on the day of the test.</TD></TR></TABLE>


the Mercury's special high performance gearcase has a stepped propshaft and the dyno coupler did not fit it.

[Neveredge]

Seahorse, That is true but there is an adapter for it and I'm sure Land & Sea would have shipped it next day air. And if not then they should have waited.

[61Woody]

Who cares if a engine is the fastest or not? I mean really for most of the buying public a couple mph will not make a rats azz difference in how you use your boat. If your only buying a motor for speed and not going to use it for racing I think your missing the boat (so to speak) all together.

[Neveredge]

Lots of people care. And the manufacterers, they get braggin rights from these tests and that translates into sales.

In the Bullet test it was a 6 mph difference. If your going to spend nearly 50 grand on a fast bass boat you want the most speed for your money.

I like going fast, I know it isn't every ones cup of tea but thats what's so great about living in the best country in the world.

[garycorbett]

Why is it that Merc always beats Evinrude in all these tests and there always seems to be some problems for the Evinrude guys; either with the testing procedure, rules, data analysis or whatever? Are the magazines biased toward merc because they advertise with them? Is there always someone who does not like evinrude trying to scuttle them? I note that you can't find anything on the scream and fly website on the Evinrude wins at the Rouen 24hrs race. Shortly after it was on there I tried to click on the article info in the forum and got linked to some unrelated site? There seems to be a lot of people out there trying to put the etec down big time; working at it continuously - paid bashers????

[Neveredge]

Gary, Merc doesn't always beat the Evinrudes except in the high performance tests. The Evinrudes do very well in the other tests.

Merc has always been the king of speed. If you want to go fast "Buy a Merc" that mindset was created at Lake X back in the 50 and 60s and Mercury has been able to continue it thru the Mercury Racing Outboards and their support of racing.

Evinrude has not supported its racers at all since the early 90s. If BRP does start to show some serious support for the racers you will see a change in coverage.

As for the hi-perf tests, the Evinrude lacks a proper gearcase to compete with the Merc. Mercury has the best gearcase hands down. The magazine editors know this and it seems chose a boat that would benifit the merc. However, BRP probably told the editors that their hi-per case would be ready. This is BRPs fault for not having it ready.

Most of the hard core high performance guys are Merc guys. This is why the 24 hours of Rouen didn't get to much attention over at Screamandfly, or here for that matter. I bet Mercury got the message lound and clear though.

[SEAHORSE]

this thread got off course with namecalling and unsubstantiated accusations so several posts were deleted.

This is an informational newsgroup, not a place for unruly behavior.

[JoeBro44]

Awwwww..... put em back up. This was getting good. I was just gettin ready to show this to my brother.

[Neveredge]

Heres the way I see it. Mercury is running scared. The etech is putting a dent in the verado sales. And we all know that merc spent a small fortune developing the verado. So they are trying to get BRP to compare the Etech to the opti XS. BRP isn't falling for it. They are on a marketing plan that targets the 4 stroke market and they are really doing well. So why change in mid stride and go after the XS. They know thay can't compete with the XS on really fast boats and to BRP that is such a small market segment it just isn't worth the effort to pursue it.

BRP has stated that they have no intention to even respond to mercs ridiculous RUDE AWAKINING ad. By doing so would water down the attack on the 4 strokes. Even though the ad is deliberatly misleading.

Maybe after they have gained enough market share they will come out in full force with a high performance division.

Lets face it, the BRP 3.3 has some serious potential. Al Stoker is working on an EFI model right now that is over 400 hp. If he can do it you know BRP won't be far behind. By the way, if you don't believe the 400 hp number then call Al yourself.

[ChampioNman]

2&gt;&gt;&gt;4 that is the program and is what the E-tec is made for. It ain't a race motor, it is designed to be the cleanest burning 2 stroke in the world!! Nuff said.

[garycorbett]

Man it sure is going to be interesting a few years from now!!! I think the etec will take the Hi perf market in time as well. The Verado is just tooooooooo heavy and big.

[E-tecRon]

I bought a 2005 Z-21 in March 2006 with E-tec 250. I considered a Verado 250. Before I decided I watched the dealer deliver a boat to a customer with the Verado and I stood and listen to the dealer mechanic answer questions from the buyer and then tell him all the crap he has todo maintance wise. I was awful. After the buyer left I talked to the mechanic ( who I have known for years) why anyone would want a 4 stroke Verado. His confidential response was NO ONE would want it if they compared everything to the E-tec 250. I did some more research and he was right. It weighs over 100 pounds lighter, has very similar fuel mileage, never smokes, never misses. I think the E-tec will change everything. It will eliminate 4-strokes or at least eliminate in the big engines. It will make all the others stop making those spitting, smoking, chain saw engines obsolete. Just my opinion 4 strokes are too heavy and are sick on the low end . When I here my E-tec running at 4500 RPM all I can here is quality. Darn--I'm starting to sound like a commercial. Anyway, do your research and don't get hung up on the max speed. I'm getting older and my wife wants things strong but steady and realiable. Here's a tip. Dry Ice is cheap and will keep ice cream frozen on the hottest days in your live well. Life is about priorities. Hung em and eat well. And buy a big A motor.