Rusty, Problems w/ 225 ETEC Help!!!

[Fishin' Impossible]

Hi Rusty,
First time posting here, but I heard you are the man to ask about the issues I am having w/ my 225 Saltwater ETEC and would appreciate any feedback.

First, I'll give you my boat description
1994 20ft. Hydra-Sport Vector Center Console
Hull Weight 2300lbs dry
Unsure of deadrise
Holds 85 gallons of gas
Normal load 3 guys(average size 180lbs), load of fuel, ice and accessories.

I received my 225 on May 19th, 2005 and went to the Florida Keys the week of Memorial Day. The second Day there, after trolling for several hours at 2000-2500rpm, the engine began "bogging "down and finally shut off. Thinking it was a fuel issue, I pumped the fuel ball and attempted to start again, no luck. Waited a few minutes and was finally able to get it to start. Was able to run in at a normal cruise speed(@4300rpm) w/ no problems. Then, while idling through a no wake zone, it started again. While powering up, it began surging, until it appeared to clear itself out and was able to cruise w/ no problems back to the house. Next day, while idling out again, the engine just shut off, no warnings, nothing, just like you shut the key off. Engine started right up and was able to cruise to the fishing grounds with no problem. Again, after trolling for several hours, it begins to bog down again and shuts off. Get the engine started again and cruise back home. Now, I am getting annoyed. Spend all this money, have great weather in the keys and have to worry every time I take it out, if I am going to get back.
We get back to Jacksonville and I take it to my dealer. They change the crank positon sensor and change the plugs because they were loaded w/carbon. The CPS was SUPPOSE to fix the bogging down issue.
Next few trips out of jacksonville slow trolling, the engine seemed to "miss" and sometimes would shut off, but would start right up.
Then, while fishing a kingfish tournament, I had the opportunity to run the engine at 2000-2500rpm range for an extended period of time, due to no wake zones, and again, the engine began "bogging" down and would cut off. It would take me several minutes to get it cranked again. Took it back to the shop and they said it was the flow control valve being stuck open, causing the engine to run too cool. The engine would compensate for this and shoot extra fuel and oil(XD-100), in an attempt to get the temperature of the combustion chamber up, causing the plugs to get fouled. Is this correct? This fix seemed to correct the "missing " issue at low speeds. I have not had the opportunity to run the engine at the 2000-2500rpm rnge for an extended period of time yet to see if that is corrected.
Next issue A few weeks ago, after a day of slow trolling, I was running the engine a little harder(@5300rpm, 37-39mph) and I spun a hub. Thinking this was normal, I had the hub replaced and the very next trip out, I was not even able to get on plane, before the replacement hub failed. Called the shop to see if anything could cause this and according to them, BRP put out a service bulletin stating that there have been some cases of exhaust getting too hot and causing hub failure. So they proceed to put some kind of water diverter to the exhaust, to cool the exhaust. I have had the boat out once since then and amazingly, made it back to the dock w/ no APPARENT issues, just eems to be sucking fuel for this type of engine.
Next question, fuel mileage:
I am running a 14X17pitch prop, turn 5800 @ WOT and max out @ 48mph, with a light load. The Best MPG I have seen is 2.4, seems low too me, What about you? I average about 2.2 mpg. Last trip out, according to FLO SCAN, which is pretty darn accurate, was showing 14-15GPH @ 4300rpm. My 1994 Ocean Pro would burn the same thing. My expectations were 30mph @ 4000rpm and burn about 10gph. Were these expectations too high? I have tried a 19pitch prop, but lost 6mph on the top end. Is that normal?
Sorry if this was too long, it is just that the engine has had issues from the begining and after spending all the money, I was expecting to have a few years of trouble free boating, unfortunately it has been just the opposite. Sad to say, but I had alot more confidence in my old 200 Ocean Pro.
Any ideas, suggestions? Help, Please?

Scott

[RUSTY63]

Welcome to the BBC.

I have a question, Has any one checked the fuel pressure and looked at the supply to see if there is a problem from the boats fuel system..ie: restrictions, air bubbles in the supply line?

The reason I ask this is most of your problems seem to be at low RPM's.

[Fishin' Impossible]

Not that I am aware of. Are you aware of any known issues w/ these engines in that range?

[RUSTY63]

Not anything that comes to mind, You have a low RPM running problem and what appears to be high fuel consumption.....This makes me think a fuel problem in the boats fuel system or a lift pump problem, also if the motor is still running cold it could cause high fuel consumption, I am just thinking out loud.

[Fishin' Impossible]

The one thing that makes me think that it is NOT the boat's fuel system is, I never had an issue w/ my old 200 Ocean Pro. These problems began when the Etec was installed.
Could the motor be mounted too Low? It is the same size shaft motor as the 200 and is mounted in the same slots.
Do you feel that I am not getting the type of fuel mileage that I should be getting? Would a weak lift pump cause excess fuel consumption?
Thanks for your help

Scott

[RUSTY63]

It would be easy enough to check the fuel system, I don't know the boat you have or where the motor is on the transom, a poor set up could cause high fuel consumption, a weak lift pump could cause the motor to die at low speeds.

I could be headed in the wrong direction but these are my thoughts.

[SEAHORSE]

I love that boat that you have and spent many occasions running in snotty water conditions, yet that deep V hull cut thru the waves even better than many larger offshore boats. The only real drawback was the location of the fuel filter in the early production boats which was way back under the deck, only accessable thru the transom well access cover. You could not even see it, just had to reach for it.

Most of the HS 20's ran about 50 mph with a light load and without a T-Top or bottom paint with the older carbureted 225's. Add a T-top and paint and you lose about 5 mph. Full fuel also slowed that 22° deep-V hull down quite a bit.

You didn't say what prop you were running but different 17's affect the boat at cruising speeds differently. The aluminum, SST, Viper, and Cyclone 17" props give various cruising to rpm ratios, which really affect milage, yet be within a few mph at WOT. The new upcoming Rebel props should increase cruising speeds by several mph. Most of the time the motor can be mounted in the 3rd or 4th hole from the top, depending on the weight distribution and water conditions.

Has your prop ever been damaged, repaired, knicked up, filed down, etc.? Is it by chance the same prop you used with your 200?


Normal fuel comsumption on an E-TEC 225 should be around 10-11 gph at 4500 on an average boat depending on hull design, prop efficiency, and boat weightt. A deep V style like yours requires a lot more power to push it thru the water. 30-35 mph @ 4500 would be somewhere between 3 and 3.5 mpg when set up correctly.

From your figures, your tach or flowmeter may be off a bit, or your 12 year old hull has picked up water in the foam making it heavier ( a very common problem). Several coats of bottom paint also make a word of difference.

Like Rusty mentioned, a check of the motor temps at all speeds should be done. It is super rare and I've never seen it myself, but there is a possibilty of a leaking or miscalibrated injector causing more fuel to be delivered. A good tech can "tweak" things using the computer to check calibration. Were new plugs installed because of the fouling problem, or were they re-used?

By the way, with the same load of gear and people, what rpm and top speed did you have with your old 200 Ocean Pro, and was it a '93 or '94 model? There were performance differences between them, just like with the '91 Fastrike and the '92 and later models.

[Fishin' Impossible]

Seahorse,
I appreciate all of your input. I will answer some of the questions you posed in your post.
I do agree that the fuel filter is in a bad place!
The Boat has a T-Top, but no bottom Paint
I am running a 14X17 Stiletto SS Prop that was cupped after the Etec was installed. Reason being, the motor was turning 6200 and they had to bring the RPM down. It is the same prop I was running on the 200 Ocean Pro.
Did I mention I tried a 19 Viper and lost 5mph off the top end. Is that normal?
This engine is mounted as low as it can go. Should it be mounted in the 3rd or fourth hole?
At 4500 RPM, the Etec is burning about 14GPH and running about 27-29mph, on average.
With the old '94 Ocean Pro 3 people on board, load of Fuel and other accessories, the engine would consistently burn 14gph, at 4500rpm and run about 25-27mph. I wish I could burn 10-11 GPH at 4500 RPM and be running 30-35!
I just expected alot more than 2.2 MPG. I expected to at least be getting close to 3 MPG
My last trip out, I ran right around 38 miles at 4300 RPM and the rest was slow trolling and burned 24 gallons of gas. This just seems high, do you think this is high for an Etec?
Again, I thank you for all your input and suggestions

Scott

[SEAHORSE]

Get rid of that Stilletto prop and try a Viper or a Cyclone (formerly called an Offshore Renegade). You might be right in between a 17" and 19" version so try the 17" first. I don't think the Rebel is available yet, but if you can find one, get it.

Also get that motor raised up first, try the 3rd hole initially.

[Fishin' Impossible]

Seahorse,
What don't you like about the Stiletto props?
Do you think the motor can be raised to the 3rd slot and not cavitate?

[SEAHORSE]

The thin blades must flex and performance just isn't there compared to other available props. They are inexpensive, though, for a stainless wheel.

Motor height is a trial and error deal. Start with the 3rd hole and you can then move up one or down one depending on how the boat performs.

[Fishin' Impossible]

Would you suggest to move up to a 14 3/4 X 17 Prop or do you think 14X17 is OK?
I noticed most test reports show these motors mounted in the #3 hole on boat styles similar to mine.
Does it matter that the old 200 was mounted in the #1 hole also. If so, Could I have been losing performance w/ that engine?
What kind of improvement could I maybe see by moving the engine up?
Should I have the dealer raise the engine?

[SEAHORSE]

If you are unable to, have the dealer move the motor up to the recommeded 3rd hole. Take that 19 Viper with you also on the test run, as long as it is stock and not "messed with", as well as a few 17" styles.

If everything runs great up in the 3rd hole even in rough water, move up to the 4th to see if there is any further improvement.

As you are trying different props and heights, make notes of each setup and performance so you can refer to them and decide which compbination is best for you. Yep, it is time consuming, but that is where a knowledgable dealer can help, by knowing what combos perform, so they can recommend a starting point for their customers who want to tweak things to their satisfaction. That goes for bass boat dealers as well as off-shore boat dealers.

It was a few years ago, but the last time I was in Jax, there was a large HydraSport dealer there, but I can't remember the name. Are they still around and have you asked them for setup recommendations?

I fished the Jax Kingfish Tournament back in '91 and that was an expeirience!!!! Nearly 1000 boats taking off at once in a shotgun type start!!! We were in a 25' HydraSport with twin Second Effort modified Evinrude 225's with open exhaust and could run almost 60mph in 3' seas.

[SEAHORSE]

If you are unable to, have the dealer move the motor up to the recommeded 3rd hole. Take that 19 Viper with you also on the test run, as long as it is stock and not be "messed with", as well as a few 17" styles.

If everything runs great up in the 3rd hole even in rough water, move up to the 4th to see if there is any further improvement.

[SEAHORSE]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fishin’ Impossible &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you suggest to move up to a 14 3/4 X 17 Prop or do you think 14X17 is OK?
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I was on the phone today with a friend and fellow tech who works in Florida and was talking about the old HydraSport days and the different rigs we had run. He mentioned that his offshore customers have had good luck with Power Tech 4 blade props and he said they outperformed the BRP Cyclone 4-blades.

You might want to look into the Power tech series of props also. I haven't tried them but I respect my friend's opinions.

http://www.ptprop.com/