2001 150 Johnson Lean Sneeze

[laltec]

When I go to the lake and first launch boat it runs fine doesnt die or sneeze or anything... still kinda pauses for a sec when i gun it though.... runs great at wot. It starts to sneeze after its been warmed up every now and again and some times dies. I have checked for leaks and every thing is good. timing is 6 at idel and 20 at wot. This weekend I am planning on moving the ball closer to the engine so the arrow is pointing up (heard this is a problem sometimes and my bulb does get hard unless i pump it while the arrow is up.) I ordered a water seperator and i am planning on installing with a 10 micro filter. I was thinking about moving the idle jets out 1/8 or 1/4 turn and see if that helps but have also read that this shouldnt be done. Im running e10 fuel (only thing around) if that matters. Is there any thing i could screw up by just backing out the jets a bit? Both shops i took it to clam the carbs are fine. So i dont know what else to check... any more ideas?

compression test (all check within 2 of 120)
checked spark - ok
checked anti siphon valve in tank - didnt have one
replace bulb
replaced fuel filter
replace float and needle valve in vapor separator
replace vapor serator pump
replaced vro pump
checked for air bubbles with clear line and made sure fuel pressure was correct
checked screen in fuel tank
replace spark plugs
replaced water pump
replace power pack
replaced stator
replaced optic senor
set timing<br /><br />
Modified by laltec at 12:09 AM 10/18/2011<br /><br />
Modified by laltec at 3:46 AM 10/18/2011


Modified by laltec at 3:46 AM 10/18/2011

[316jughead]

Idle timing at 6* is not set in stone, a lot depends on the prop and if your idle RPM is correct. What is the RPM at idle in gear? Who can tell if the carbs are OK, maybe by reading the plugs, using a spray bottle with gas and oil mix, while motor is running shoot a short burst in each carb, one at a time, if the motor picks up RPM might be a carb problem, if the motor stalls carb might be OK.


Modified by 316jughead at 8:30 AM 10/18/2011

[laltec]

Would setting the timing at 4 help? Kinda got me stumped because it runs so great till it gets warmed up than starts the dying and sneezing. It always fires right back up instantly (how can it fire up that fast when it just died?) Last time i took it out it was idling about 750 with the last prop. I am waiting on another prop right now because i damaged the last one the last time i was out on the ramp. this weekend i will take it out and spray some gas in the carbs and see if it picks up. Also thinking about putting on a clear fuel line to the carbs and making sure there is no air bubbles in the line when this occurs. Done this test in the drive way several times but can't get it to lean sneeze and die out in the drive way and there is never air in the lines in the driveway. Is there anything else i can do to try and pinpoint. When it is sneezing it only does it about every 20 seconds or so. Is there a trick to pinpoint the cylinder that may be causing it if it is just one?

[316jughead]

Well, Captain Crunch, just how did we ruin a prop on the ramp? Air in the fuel line will cause more smoke than nomal. 750 idle in gear is good. I would do the carb idle adjustment, just like your manual shows. No need to get radical on the turns in or out. The manual is very accurate and explains in good detail just how you must go about this adjustment. This probably will fix the lean sneeze. Takes time but well worth it. Just gather up a bunch of props and go for it.

[316jughead]

You might also try several trim angles at idle in gear. If there is a noticeable change in idle it could mean a recirculation issue. That is an easy test you can do between prop changes.

[laltec]

I'll give that a try and see if it makes a differance . I was going to get a stainless prop any way just wanted to speed it up smartypants .


Modified by laltec at 3:18 AM 10/20/2011

[316jughead]

[ChampioNman]

Might want to give the reeds/intake manifold a look. If you have the airbox off you can tell which one has the sneeze, it will spit back.

[laltec]

While gathering up the tools i needed today before going out I noticed that the green junk on top of the idle screw was gone that was there before i took it in to the last shop... Which was no big deal i took it there for them to work on, But what surprised me is it was just on number one cylinder and not the rest. I went ahead and checked it and it was only backed out 2-3/4 turn and my service manual said to start with 4 turns. I back it out 4 and headed to the lake. Well the lean sneeze is now gone but the dying is getting much worse. When i first got there and took off it ran great. I drove around for a while and no problems coming off plane then wot... there was no hesitation. But is u come off plane and idle for about two minutes it starts to die and then when u give it gas it will just die no matter how many times i would try. I noticed a few times when it was idling and right before it was going to die i would hit the choke and it would picked back up, But most of the time it picked up about 50 rpm and just died. only way to get it going again was to give it gas really slowly till it got to about 1500 rpms and then its fine again till i slow to a idle for two minute and it just starts bogging down and dying again. Which that would be why it always messed up right at the dock because i always was idling in a no wake zone. Here and I was beginning to think it was smart enough to just mess up at the dock. While out i did tilt the motor up and down and never seen any difference. The bulb stayed firm and i pumped it hard again to see if that helped but it didn't. While it was running poorly i check spark on ever cylinder twice and all check out great. I backed out all the idle screws just 1/8 turn and then another 1/8 but no difference so moved them back. I tried choking it while rapidly giving it gas still died. I also pulled the plugs but couldn't see any noticeible difference with my untrained eyes. The two shops i took it two told me the carbs where fine, But being neither fixed my boat or could tell me what was wrong besides we don't know and don't have any idea i have decided to ignore anything they had told me at this point. And currently believe it is time to rebuild the carbs. I currently have the oem service manual and it goes into pretty good detail and am going to attempt to do it myself. Is anything else needed besides six carb kits and some brp engine turner. Do i need to pull the throttle body off an go through that as well? And if so What parts will need replaced then?

Does this seem like the right path? Not the path i wanted beings im a little nervous breaking into the carbs but can't imagine what else it could be being the fuel system is new right up to the carbs.
thanks

[ChampioNman]

I would check all of them before tearing into them once you tear the carb apart you may end up needing carb bowls. Take it over to Jughaid he ain't doing anything but taking naps and he can fix you up.

[316jughead]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by ChampioNman &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I would check all of them before tearing into them once you tear the carb apart you may end up needing carb bowls. Take it over to Jughaid he ain't doing anything but taking naps and he can fix you up.</td></tr></table>

I would be glad to help, but Shane knows that I had rotater cuff surgery on my right shoulder and my arm is in a sling for two more weeks, right now I can't even lift my arm. I can however drive over to his house and and offer my big mouth. I would have to stop and take a nap, but I could make it.

[316jughead]

Can't do any harm in doing the carbs, it did set for a while and it's 10 years old. Just a question, when you idle do you trim the moter to about level to keep the exhaust relief ports out of the water? These motors are very smart, I know mine is smarter than me. I had this same problem with idle, when the weather got hot, many of us called it "heat soak" a very common problem with these motors. I fought this problem for a few years, I don't exactly know what I did but my motor quit acting up. I think it just got tired of being worked on.

What's the idle in gear now with the new prop? I use Gumout carb and choke cleaner, not engine tuner.


Modified by 316jughead at 9:06 AM 10/24/2011

[316jughead]

Here is something I would do, read up on throttle cable install, disconnect the throttle linkage from the cable and adjust the cable exactly like the manual shows. As you know this is where I differ from the manual, reconnect the throttle linkage, if your motor was idleing below 800 RPM in gear move the idle timing up a click and check, remember the timing arm must be on the return stop. You should notice a change in the distance from the throttle arm to the carb roller, it will be closer, but should not touch. This will allow you to have the timing roller touching the arm when you sync the timing with the carbs. It will give you the correct timing advance curve. Something to do while your waiting on the carb kits and won't be changed when you do the carbs. This basically all I did, besides changing thermostats and it fixed my motor.

[laltec]

well i went out and pulled a carb and removed one of the bowls... It wasn't flat but it wasn't real bad either. Not knowing if it was acceptable i just order 6 bowls along with six carb kits and the throttle body gasket. I decided if gumout carb cleaner worked for jughead it will work for me to . Still looking for a torque scewdriver 10-30 or about in lbs on ebay (wow do they every want some bucks for them. ) Yes the relief port are out of the water. most of the time it is up 3/4 of the trim gauge from when i come off plane. I have read up alot on the heat stroke and i'm almost certain that is not what im having. I have tried some cures other suggested for it including reving ur engine up on startup and pumping the bulb... nothing made any difference. Most often it seems they experince it after they shutdown for a bit. I get it and never shut down. I will do the throttle linkage per book. When coming off plane it idle at about 750 in gear but over the next two minutes it would slowly move down to 600 before dying. When i was out i made sure the timing arm would return to the stop and it did every time. Jughead I may have to take you up on ur offer... How dumb would i be to pass on the chance to learn from a pro !!! You could just pull up a chair, grab ya a paddle and smack me around every time i do something wrong. Just a warning though... by the time we get them done ur paddle arm may need a surgery two .

[Bassmeister]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by laltec &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">well i went out and pulled a carb and removed one of the bowls... It wasn't flat but it wasn't real bad either. Not knowing if it was acceptable i just order 6 bowls along with six carb kits and the throttle body gasket. I decided if gumout carb cleaner worked for jughead it will work for me to . Still looking for a torque scewdriver 10-30 or about in lbs on ebay (wow do they every want some bucks for them. ) Yes the relief port are out of the water. most of the time it is up 3/4 of the trim gauge from when i come off plane. I have read up alot on the heat stroke and i'm almost certain that is not what im having. I have tried some cures other suggested for it including reving ur engine up on startup and pumping the bulb... nothing made any difference. Most often it seems they experince it after they shutdown for a bit. I get it and never shut down. I will do the throttle linkage per book. When coming off plane it idle at about 750 in gear but over the next two minutes it would slowly move down to 600 before dying. When i was out i made sure the timing arm would return to the stop and it did every time. Jughead I may have to take you up on ur offer... How dumb would i be to pass on the chance to learn from a pro !!! You could just pull up a chair, grab ya a paddle and smack me around every time i do something wrong. Just a warning though... by the time we get them done ur paddle arm may need a surgery two . </td></tr></table>

I'd take him up on it in a sec!!!

[316jughead]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by laltec &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">well i went out and pulled a carb and removed one of the bowls... It wasn't flat but it wasn't real bad either. Not knowing if it was acceptable i just order 6 bowls along with six carb kits and the throttle body gasket. I decided if gumout carb cleaner worked for jughead it will work for me to . Still looking for a torque scewdriver 10-30 or about in lbs on ebay (wow do they every want some bucks for them. ) Yes the relief port are out of the water. most of the time it is up 3/4 of the trim gauge from when i come off plane. I have read up alot on the heat stroke and i'm almost certain that is not what im having. I have tried some cures other suggested for it including reving ur engine up on startup and pumping the bulb... nothing made any difference. Most often it seems they experince it after they shutdown for a bit. I get it and never shut down. I will do the throttle linkage per book. When coming off plane it idle at about 750 in gear but over the next two minutes it would slowly move down to 600 before dying. When i was out i made sure the timing arm would return to the stop and it did every time. Jughead I may have to take you up on ur offer... How dumb would i be to pass on the chance to learn from a pro !!! You could just pull up a chair, grab ya a paddle and smack me around every time i do something wrong. Just a warning though... by the time we get them done ur paddle arm may need a surgery two . </td></tr></table>

Be glad to, just give me a call. Do you still have my number? Things I will require, a nice cofortable chair, a good cot, with a soft mattress, slow blues music with surround sound, very low noise level while I'm on the cot, this may be as often as every two hours, Diet A&W root beer, so cold that when I open one the smoke rolls out, for snacks, Black Forrest ham, baby swiss cheese, Mayo (not salad dressing) dill pickles on dark Rye bread, mixed nuts, those expensive ones with hardly any peanuts, you might have a couple of girls stop by for a chat, just a short one "We" will have work to do. Don't forget the paddle, I once advised a forum member to first get a baseball bat and hit himself on the head, that would also work.

[laltec]

No, I will need it again... Didn't know the instant messages where only there for 5 days or i would have wrote it down.

[316jughead]

I don't like to remove the throttle body unless it is needed. Remember take the top carb off first and put a shorter bolt, or shim the stock bolt with a 3/8 nut and washer, in one of the top carb bolt holes and tighten, this keeps the throttle body on tight and won't distrub the o-ring seal. You will see a bolt at the bottom of the body that you don't remove.

[Bassmeister]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by 316jughead &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Be glad to, just give me a call. Do you still have my number? Things I will require, a nice cofortable chair, a good cot, with a soft mattress, slow blues music with surround sound, very low noise level while I'm on the cot, this may be as often as every two hours, Diet A&W root beer, so cold that when I open one the smoke rolls out, for snacks, Black Forrest ham, baby swiss cheese, Mayo (not salad dressing) dill pickles on dark Rye bread, mixed nuts, those expensive ones with hardly any peanuts, you might have a couple of girls stop by for a chat, just a short one "We" will have work to do. Don't forget the paddle, I once advised a forum member to first get a baseball bat and hit himself on the head, that would also work.
</td></tr></table>

Sounds cheap enough to me!!

[laltec]

guess that would just depend on how hard he hits me with the paddle!!!