You will hear discussion on the A Rig

[CaymasRodney]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by bassmaster658 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Wonder what the stats are in relation to how many hooks "stick" a fish on a 3 treble hooked jerkbait or even a 2 treble hooked crankbait or topwater. Just curious as I say the fish numbers are equal because so many more people fish crankbaits, jerkbaits, and topwaters....just saying... a hook is a hook is a hook... and from my perspective a 3 trebled lure has 9 hooks while the A-rig can have up to 5(less hooks than any 2 treble hooked lure). Give us some mortality data or better yet ask them at the meeting about mortality using the A-rig. Your argument has no merit because it's biased.....We know..We know...your just informing everyone of the meeting </td></tr></table>


You are right there is no data to back up any claim right now, if it hurts the fish or if it does not hurt the fish. That is what these meeting are for to get in put from all sportsmen in Ky about what they think. Yes i will be the first to agree that i am biased on this subject, i have just seen so many fish dead at the scales it makes me sick and yes i still fish tournaments and bring in fish to be weighed in but that does not stop me from trying to do my best to keep fish alive and do what is best for the fishing for our grandkids down the road. I am not against anyone catching more fish by any means, good for business and good for the ego but when it endangers the future of our fishing pleasures then that is what i am taking about.

[KyBigBassMan]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Alliston64 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">If you can troll with it as its been done for years with no complaints or motions for banning it, what makes it ok to ban it now that it can be cast with a rod???

It's just my opinion and may be a bad one, but these rally cries to have the bait banned altogether are stupid.
</td></tr></table>

[KyBigBassMan]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Bigtim68 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Wonder if you'd feel the same if you sold swimbaits?</td></tr></table>

ouch.....

[whitebassboy]

I think summertime tournaments hurt the fish more than arigs are. Too many people don't make enough effort to keep their fish alive. I have seen more dead fish than I care to inside KY dam marina after a hot weather tournament. I have also seen fishermen ice the fool out of the fish in their livewell to keep them alive for weigh in. They werent worried about how they would be after they were released. A three fish summertime limit for tournaments would save more fish than banning the rig. Several of the states further south of us are already doing it. I fished a Gambler tournament a couple of years ago on Barkley and they had a three fish limit. I just have a hard time believing everyones motives on banning the arig is to "protect the fish" .

[Gsmith223]

I used the A-rig for the time first in November fishing in the Chevy Wild Card as a co. I was very impressed with the way it caught fish. My first day I caught 2 for eight pounds. But it was the second day that made me start thinking about how the AR was changing things. The boater I drew was throwing it as well and well he kicked my ass. We were throwing the same thing all day he caught 10 fish. doubles twice and a 8 pound kicker to boot and made the All American. I caught nothing all day and thats unusal for me. He caught every aggressive bite there was. It will deffinetly change things up for the co-anglers.

I saw fish that got more than one hook in it many times but I dont really see how that hurt them anymore than a 6 inch jerk bait loaded with trebles or a gut hooked senko. Yes it will have negative effect but everything we do has a negative effect in some way. I hope that the average Joe doesnt start using them. I dont think the fish will ever get tired of eating schooling fish and it maybe possible that the Bass will get over fished. Here in Indiana we already know what thats like. Just my two cents.

[TR21Bassin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Bigtim68 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Wonder if you'd feel the same if you sold swimbaits?</td></tr></table>

I could sell swimbaits and that has no impact in my opinion.

If you want to make this personal then call me and we can do so otherwise keep this discussion to what it is about.

[buzzking]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

I could sell swimbaits and that has no impact in my opinion.

If you want to make this personal then call me and we can do so otherwise keep this discussion to what it is about.</td></tr></table>

[bassmaster658]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

I could sell swimbaits and that has no impact in my opinion.

If you want to make this personal then call me and we can do so otherwise keep this discussion to what it is about.</td></tr></table>

Question: What does impact your opinion on the banning of the A-rig? I haven't read anything scientific or non-scientific that would sway my opinion as I am sure you haven't either.

I think the original discussion topic was not about A-rigs use specifically but was about a KDFW meeting to discuss any issues. There was some adding their two cents about thinking they should be banned so I guess some others like me just added our two cents about the reasons why we thought they shouldn't be banned. The E-mail that was sent to me from KDFW (The experts and those more qualified than any of us to make decisons about banning it's use completely) is listed above in one of my other posts. I think for some of us tourney anglers it is a very sensitive subject with most of us thinking we know more about what's best for the fishery. Otherwise it's ONLY everyone's opinion here. I've got mine and you have yours....no need for threats because someone has a different opinion

[skeeter tom]

If you admit there's no credible data, how can you say ban it ? In 25 years of tournament fishing the most common causes of tournament mortality that I've seen firsthand are gut-hooked fish [usually on a soft plastic] and fish that were caught deep in the summer [people need to learn how to fizz fish]. I've never seen a fish die from being hooked outside the mouth. I've caught around 100 fish on the A-rig, of those 15% had another hook in the body , and none of them died or had excessive bleeding. If I had caught those 100 fish on soft plastics I know there would have been some dead ones. Some fish are going to die no matter what we use. Summer tournaments are harder on fish than any bait or rig there is, but I don't hear anyone saying ban summer tournaments. In the Everstart Championship the A-rig was used allot, was there an abnormal amount of dead fish ? Until we know more we can't say ban it because the current information doesn't support that. Exaggeration and emotion should stay out of a intelligent decision, stick to the facts.


Modified by skeeter tom at 6:57 AM 2/13/2012

[TR21Bassin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by bassmaster658 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

I've got mine and you have yours....no need for threats because someone has a different opinion </td></tr></table>

No threat, but someone shouldn't attack someone when they don't know jack crap about them or their business. He needs to keep it on the subject, otherwise if he has issues with me or my business he can call me.

I have yet to throw it and don't plan on throwing the rig. I've talked to many people that have thrown it and many of them say it needs to be banned especially for tournaments. They all are saying the same thing that nearly every fish comes in with multiple hooks throughout the body of the fish. You may not see immediate mortality but once the water warms up this will increase the chance of infection for these fish. It doesn't take much to kill fish once they have an infection.

Also, their are various reports on here of people never fishing this time of year and catching 50+ keepers in 2 days. That to me takes the sport out of it, finding and patterning fish is a huge part of fishing. Its not the cure all for all fishing but in fall and winter it has proven in every tourney on KY/Barkley this year that if you weren't throwing it you weren't winning any money. If it continues to be legal where does it stop? There was another pic on here of one guy throwing 4 hooked together.

Keep it legal for recreational fishing but for tourneys it should be banned. Thats just my opinion. I don't fish many big tournies but as of right now I will try my best not to fish any of them that allow it.

[Roddy]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

There was another pic on here of one guy throwing 4 hooked together.

.</td></tr></table>

FYI That was a staged picture in a parking lot. Take a hell of a rod to cast over a lb of tackle.

And let's all try to keep our difference of opinions on this from getting presonal.

[TR21Bassin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Roddy &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

FYI That was a staged picture in a parking lot. Take a hell of a rod to cast over a lb of tackle. </td></tr></table>

Didn't knot but couldn't it be done with the right rig, light wire, 1/16 oz heads and 3" swim baits. I can just see someone trying it with 2 or 3 righs.

[Roddy]

Light wire sucks. I only use it for crappie rigs.

[CaymasRodney]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Roddy &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Light wire sucks. I only use it for crappie rigs.</td></tr></table>


Oooops does it catch crappie

[CaymasRodney]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by skeeter tom &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote"> I've never seen a fish die from being hooked outside the mouth. I've caught around 100 fish on the A-rig, of those 15% had another hook in the body , and none of them died or had excessive bleeding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Modified by skeeter tom at 6:57 AM 2/13/2012</td></tr></table>


That is why we need test and data from the guys who are payed to do that sort of thing, when a fish is foul hooked three four times with an A rig who knows for sure that fish does not die from infection from those foul hooks, sure you turn it lose and hope for the best but to me that is why we need to know if it does hurt those fish.

[skeeter tom]

People who think you can take an A-rig and go down any bank and catch a bunch of fish are crazy.You still have to find and pattern the fish just like any other bait.The best fisherman will still win .A pretty good example is the Everstart championship. There were allot of people throwing the Rig and Dan Morehead won . Is he just a common idiot? Did he just get lucky? I don't think so. <table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

No threat, but someone shouldn't attack someone when they don't know jack crap about them or their business. He needs to keep it on the subject, otherwise if he has issues with me or my business he can call me.

I have yet to throw it and don't plan on throwing the rig. I've talked to many people that have thrown it and many of them say it needs to be banned especially for tournaments. They all are saying the same thing that nearly every fish comes in with multiple hooks throughout the body of the fish. You may not see immediate mortality but once the water warms up this will increase the chance of infection for these fish. It doesn't take much to kill fish once they have an infection.

Also, their are various reports on here of people never fishing this time of year and catching 50+ keepers in 2 days. That to me takes the sport out of it, finding and patterning fish is a huge part of fishing. Its not the cure all for all fishing but in fall and winter it has proven in every tourney on KY/Barkley this year that if you weren't throwing it you weren't winning any money. If it continues to be legal where does it stop? There was another pic on here of one guy throwing 4 hooked together.

Keep it legal for recreational fishing but for tourneys it should be banned. Thats just my opinion. I don't fish many big tournies but as of right now I will try my best not to fish any of them that allow it.</td></tr></table>

[skeeter tom]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by RangerRodney &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


That is why we need test and data from the guys who are payed to do that sort of thing, when a fish is foul hooked three four times with an A rig who knows for sure that fish does not die from infection from those foul hooks, sure you turn it lose and hope for the best but to me that is why we need to know if it does hurt those fish. </td></tr></table> I'm all for testing and study, but you can't do that if you ban it. If facts showed that the rig killed allot more fish than other baits, then hell yeah ban it, but that's not the case.

[TR21Bassin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by skeeter tom &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">People who think you can take an A-rig and go down any bank and catch a bunch of fish are crazy.You still have to find and pattern the fish just like any other bait.The best fisherman will still win .A pretty good example is the Everstart championship. There were allot of people throwing the Rig and Dan Morehead won . Is he just a common idiot? Did he just get lucky? I don't think so. </td></tr></table>

I'm not going to argue this with you. I've talked to Dan personally about it, and Rodney has as well and these guys can explain a lot if you listen to them. In fact Terry Bolton and Dan did multiple seminars at the West KY Boat Show and this was their primary topic. Most of these guys have been throwing this thing since last May or June and most of the pros I've talked to agree it should be banned but until it is they will continue to throw it.

If you think this thing doesn't change the outcome of tournies just go talk to some of the folks that have fished tournies all winter and see what they think.

[CaymasRodney]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by skeeter tom &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote"> I'm all for testing and study, but you can't do that if you ban it. If facts showed that the rig killed allot more fish than other baits, then hell yeah ban it, but that's not the case.</td></tr></table>

How can you say that, you don't know any more than i do for sure unless you have a crystal ball you can look into. If the A Rig does not harm fish from foul hooking then i would not have one problem with it, but no one knows that for sure, no one that i have talked with any way.

[buzzking]

If you ban the A-rig, you HAVE to ban ALL bass tournaments from May 1st to June 15th. If you wish to ban the A-rig on KY lake due to "caring for the fish" then those of you know damn good and well the "post-spawn" tourneys kill just as many fish per year as a friggin a-rig. Go to KY dam village after a may 15th tourney and see how many tired post-spawn females come to the scales dead. If you honestly care about the fishery, push for eliminating tourneys that have HISTORICALLY PROVEN to us that tons of fish come in dead.

Now as far as making "tour pros" the final authority on the subject, that is like letting General Motors who can sell hybrid cars in America. Because the A-rig directly affects their livelihoods, I consider their opinion on the matter drastically biased, and of NO WORTH. I believe the same applies to some on this board that are in favor of the ban. Yes the rig makes catching them easier at times, and yes, the 25 years you spent finding all these honey holes poking your stick in the mud is somewhat negated but it is the same with any thing in the evolving world. Look at Kodak. Look at the music industry. Every time something comes along that changes the direction of the future, you have two options, get on board with it, evolve from it, and profit, or fight it, and die(figuratively). The rig isn't going away, legal or not, just makes cheating more of a problem if you ban it. Its hear to stay, evolve, or quit.