250 VMAX SHO problems

[offduty]

This motor only has about 26 hrs on it. At 9 hrs it needed an oil change due to gas in the oil. At the 20 hr service it also had gas in the oil and was changed again. The motor started acting like it was not getting enough fuel. I would run to a spot and fish and then when I would re start and try to get on plane it acts like it is not getting enough fuel, it sputters when you put your foot in it and will not get up or even past about 1200 rpm's. However If I put it in neutral and rev up to about 2300 rpm's when I put it in gear it runs fine. I had to pay for 2 of the oil changes at about 200.00 a piece. Since the problem has started we have had to cut a hole in the deck to modify the pick up tube that was not the problem at about 250.00 cost to me. I changed the fuel water separator and cartridge and this did not help.

The Yamaha tech flew out and found fuel in the oil for the 3rd time before the thing had 30 hrs on it so they changed the oil and filter and tried some different props. I had been running a 26P Bravo 1 and top speed was 73 mph @ 5500 to 5600 rpm's with an incredible hole shot. Yamaha now believes that I am running the wrong prop and it looks like they are buying me a new one. I am hoping it will be a 27p T1 that was designed for the VMAX motor but it may be something else in a 26, they will not tell me what it is and although it is sitting at my mechanics shop they will not let me put it on or show it to me. They say the Yamaha tech has to come out and put it on and test it with his computer hooked up to it. The Yamaha manual for this motor says I should be running at 5500 to 6000 rpm's at WOT and my current 26P Bravo 1 runs 5500 to 5600 rpm's. I just find it hard to believe that I can not run my current prop as this is a 4.2 L motor and has much bigger displacement than a 3.1 or 3.3L motor that I used to be able to run a 25P 4 blade on and the motor was a 91 Yamaha 225 TLRP. Yamaha believes that this current prop is my problem and is causing gas to push past my rings to the oil in my crank case as well as causing the stall / sputter problem.

This motor has been nothing but problems since day one and they are the most expensive 250 out there. They do not have the best warranty. I am starting to wish I went with a 250 Pro XS. If I can not keep the fuel and oil separated I might as well run a 2 stroke with a better warranty that is a less expensive motor. I find it hard to believe that a 4.2 L motor will not turn a 26P Bravo 1 without causing internal problems with the motor when it is running in the recommended range for WOT. I have not heard of any TSB's on this issue and am looking for any and all input. This motor is on a 99 TR-21 and she likes to chine walk a bit, a 4 blade prop settles her down and makes it easier to control. I am beginning to feel like I am going to lose my incredible hole shot and be lucky to get the problem solved at all. Yamaha says they had a similar problem with the VMAX 2 stroke motors. Any help or input is appreciated. I will let you know how this works out but as of right now I can not recommend the Yamaha VMAX SHO, I was happy when I first got it but that has all changed.

Rich Lund

[55excl]

This whole thing sounds crazy none of it makes any sence please keep us posted.

[desertbasser]

Smells like BS to me.

I dont know chit about the SHO but it sounds to me that the fuel injectors are leaking after shutting the engine off.

5500 rpms with fuel in the oil?? I'd be willing to bet that engine wont last long.

Good luck.

[Rich Z]

I’m sure Fly will have something to say about this

[falcooon]

Something is definitely wrong with this engine!

There are too many SHOs out there without any of these issues. The one variable I see is the prop as most 250 SHO's come with the Yammy 27 designed for the SHO or the 25 Yammy designed for the SHO.

Also seeing this is a repower...the fuel lines, tank, etc can also be in question.

To start from scratch, check everything before the engine including the fuel/water separator. Get a Yammy prop. Run it hard to properly break in the engine...and take it from there!

I have a Phoenix 721 Pro XP with a 250 SHO and 27 pitch prop and have no issues except that the prop may be too heavy for the hot/humid summer months!

Good Luck and keep in touch with the issue and it's resolve.

[Flyswatter]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Rich Z &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I’m sure Fly will have something to say about this </td></tr></table>

Hmmm... Let's see. I think there is something wrong with the engine. Hope he gets it figured out.


<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by falcooon &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Something is definitely wrong with this engine!

There are too many SHOs out there without any of these issues. The one variable I see is the prop as most 250 SHO's come with the Yammy 27 designed for the SHO or the 25 Yammy designed for the SHO.

Also seeing this is a repower...the fuel lines, tank, etc can also be in question.

To start from scratch, check everything before the engine including the fuel/water separator. Get a Yammy prop. Run it hard to properly break in the engine...and take it from there!

I have a Phoenix 721 Pro XP with a 250 SHO and 27 pitch prop and have no issues except that the prop may be too heavy for the hot/humid summer months!

Good Luck and keep in touch with the issue and it's resolve.


</td></tr></table>

Falcoon, couldn't agree more with your post.

[hooken203]

There are people posting here that dont believe there is fuel getting in the oil. Maybe they will be along soon to change you mind. I on the other hand have also seen my oil level rise but only during the first 5 to 10 hours of operation. I have ran two different props during this time a 27 tempest amd a 26 fury turning both around 5600 to 5700 rpm.
I have heard about this prop with to much pitch causing fuel in the oil. Due to over fueling. This is possible the air pressure sensor data is a big part of the amount of fuel that is injeted when a prop with to much pitch is run the load on the engine is high and intake manifold pressure will be low. Low manifold pressure will cause more fuel to be injected. You may find that if you run a prop with less pitch and turn higher RPM your boat runs faster. I am going to try a 25 pitch T1 to see if my RPM will be closer to 6000. Sorry to hear you are having these issues but Yamaha may step up and help you out.

[Rich Z]

I hope they get him fixed up also but since he only posted 22 times it may not be credible…just bustin ur chops Fly

[offduty]

Had all new fuel lines put in due to ethanol in our Cali fuel and I wanted to make sure I had the right lines. The deck cap was put in because there was no way to access the tanks pick up tube. My mechanic found that the pick up tube had a 90 on the end with a screen. He cut it off so the tube went straight down towards the bottom of the tank and cut it at a 45 deg angle. This has not fixed the problem. I replaced the fuel water separator and housing. I always run the 89 octane with the 1 oz of Ringfree to 10 gals and also marine Stabil 1 oz to 5 gals. The tank is fine and the fuel system has all been checked or replaced between the tank and motor. They would not let me make a warranty issue out of it until we could rule out the fuel system, which I knew was good but had to pay for to prove it to them. I have run it hard to try and get the rings to seat after appropriate break in. I do think that if this motor wont turn a 26P Bravo 1 that is messed up as it is a 4.2 L motor and for an extra litre of bang I should be able too. I think Yamaha needs to address the issue and not say I am running the wrong prop. I have 2 Bravo 1's at a cost of $1400.00 bones. I have run a 27P Solas Scorpion that I was told is the same geometry as a 27 T-1 only with 1/4" vent holes. The motor hit 6000 rpms real easy. still did about 73 but the hole shot sucked. I would not have bought this motor if I had known it would not turn this prop. It should be able to turn a 4 blade. My motor did not come with a prop and I sure hope they sent a T-1 or I aint gonna be very happy since they say this is the prop designed for this motor. Sure would have been nice to get some of this prop info before the purchase of the motor and I hope they start putting out this info for others so they know they cant run their fav 4 blade if that is the case with the SHO.

Rich


Modified by offduty at 8:32 PM 5/5/2011

[Rich Z]

I would kindly request that Yamaha would pay for all the work that you have had done on your fuel system since there was nothing wrong with it. I agree that the fuel system had to be taken out from the equation as a possibility but since the problem persists I think Yamaha should fork the bill for that work.

[offduty]

I have requested that to my mechanic and his wife that runs the front office and neither were very receptive to the idea.

[Rich Z]

I would not even talk to the dealer mechanic. First of all if he had any brains he would have ruled out the fuel system by running the motor on a remote tank and not have had you spend money on replacing fuel fines and digging into the fuel tank. Go directly to Yamaha rep and raise some hell. You didn’t have to prove to them the fuel system was good. They had to prove it to you. You spent almost 20k on this motor and probably spent more time in the shop then fishing.

[The Arch]

ive stated in previous post about yamaha sending out a dealer letter that says they want the oil level set to no higher that half way between the low and full mark on dip stick now with that being said i was making oil didnt smell like fuel but for sure was climbing over the course of 4 hours i had removed 1.5 quarts to kep it at the full mark now once i read the letter i removed enuff to bring the level down to where yamaha had said they wanted it and i havnt made another drop

[Flyswatter]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Rich Z &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I hope they get him fixed up also but since he only posted 22 times it may not be credible…just bustin ur chops Fly </td></tr></table>

Rich, I'm still standing.

Oh, and thanks for counting too. I guess I need to get back more on the water to make some oil for those doubters. Unfortunately, every time I try to make oil with my SHO I always come up empty.

On a more serious note I hope this individual finds out what's wrong and gets it resolved soon.

[55excl]

Your dealer should not be a dealer. Not receptive to the idea? I would not let them work on a moped. I would contact the Yamaha rep tell him you need your money back for the unnessary work and for the motor or your lawyer will get involed. If a judge heard this story he will think this is crazy. Why is gas getting in to the oil the cars we drive dont do this if the crank case oil is watered down with gas you have major premature wear. This is not the first time I am hearing this. " My SHO makes oil". WHHAATT!

[falcooon]

Well, it looks like you did your homework and have everything covered. I would continue to work with the jack plate and see if this helps. Most of the Yamaha performance bulletins for this engine have it higher on the jp than usual. Also most are run with an 8" plate....

Don't know if this helps but it is a good engine so don't get discouraged.

Good Luck!



Modified by falcooon at 6:43 PM 5/6/2011

[falcooon]

Obviously you have not dealt with Judges or lawyers..... Your comments are ludicrous.

The "making oil" issue has been exaggerated to death! What does it have to do with prop performance... There have been no failures because of it...and it in most part started as an observation during break in.

Now it is the root of all evil!!! Total BS.

In any repower of an older boat, all existing equipment and systems are in question and need to be reviewed and/or replaced. Don't compare any marine engine to an automobile... they have major differences in auxiliary equipment and working environment.

Let's stop talking about the "making oil" ...a stupid term at that, and keep with the issues... Amen!

[Bama96]

Let me know if you want to get rid of that 250 SHO. I can find a home for it in a hurry. Your dealer or mechanic is incompetent and needs some help. I can turn a 27P if I wanted to with a 200 SHO. Your dealer does not know what he is doing or you don't. Maybe both. What was the cause of your prior motor failure and reason for repower? Sounds like you have or had a fuel delivery issue.

I got over 30 hours on my SHO and never "checked" the oil. Just run the shit out of them that is the way they like it. You don't need to "baby" these motors. They want to eat.

[Flyswatter]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Bama96 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Let me know if you want to get rid of that 250 SHO. I can find a home for it in a hurry. Your dealer or mechanic is incompetent and needs some help. I can turn a 27P if I wanted to with a 200 SHO. Your dealer does not know what he is doing or you don't. Maybe both. What was the cause of your prior motor failure and reason for repower? Sounds like you have or had a fuel delivery issue.

I got over 30 hours on my SHO and never "checked" the oil. Just run the shit out of them that is the way they like it. You don't need to "baby" these motors. They want to eat.</td></tr></table>

What Falcoon and Bama96 said. I have logged 60 plus hours on my SHO never ever checked the oil. Had my dealer check it and he said it never made oil. I had one of the very early ones too. Did the TSB at 3.5 hours case closed. I've had two 200SHOs already and now have a 250SHO. I won't bother checking my oil with the 250SHO too. If there is an issue my dealer will contact me.

Like Chet said. Run the chit out of it. The harder you run it the better it performs. This whole thread is vexing at the least. Per Falcoon the oil making comments are so over hyped. Yamaha caught it so early it was a non factor. Even if there was oil being made per our Yamaha certified master mechanic you'd have to severely make oil for over 50 hours for any POTENTIAL motor negatives.

[fishinerie]

Glad to hear someone finally had a problem with a SHO. It has been about two years since they came out, and this is the first time I have heard of a "first hand" report of a problem. My SHO is awesome so far at 21hrs. Only thing I don't like about it is that I have had to adjust to the incredible amount of low end torque when driving in rough water on Erie because if you aren't carefull you'll launch yourself off the next wave. I am having a hard time holding back on the throttle/hot foot to keep the boat in the water. With my last motor, a mercury old-fashioned-2 stroke, I didn't have that problem.
I am also curious to find out what the issue was with the motor in the original post.