You will hear discussion on the A Rig

[buzzking]

Thanks for the clarification, you are on thin ice, but allowed to stay....for now.

[Alliston64]

The fact that so many are concerned for the fishes well being regarding hooks in the side is crazy. How is it any different that hooking a fish with a crank bait, jerk bait, etc....Even a jig will foul hook a fish!

As mentioned above, at least the fish is way less likely to be gut hooked like what happens more often with c-rig, shaky head, jigs, etc....

I think the bait is great for the sport all around.

[Roddy]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by JC25 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">If you want to ban a fishing lure cause it catches fish, I want to ban cheeseburgers and coors light because they taste good and create health problems.

</td></tr></table>

I hope nobody in the gobnerment reads this, I can see them taxing cheeseburgers like they tax alcohol.

[pdadave]

Anyone going to the Lexington meeting Monday? I'm thinking about going, the horse park is about 5 minutes from my house so why not go

[bwschamp]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Alliston64 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
I think the bait is great for the sport all around. </td></tr></table>


.....and the skillet

[whitebassboy]

I feel like you are calling me a liar Rodney. I know for a fact that I have yet to snag a bass with the remaining hooks while fishing an arig. I also know for a fact that everyone does not catch fish with them. I watched people fishing Tuesday drop their trolling motor fish a bank on the lbl side, and then pick it up and leave without catching a fish. They may have tore them up somewhere else but they didnt catch one while they were around me. I have spoke to coworkers that have tried them and not caught any. I am trying to figure out why you were fishing one to begin with. If I was against something that I thought was hurting the sport I love I wouldnt be doing it. If I was foul hooking almost every bass I caught to the point I thought they might die when I put them back in I would stop using that technique. I have watched the Elias win twice and the Morehead win once on tv and did not notice issues with the fish being foul hooked. Now I realize that it does happen at times but in my experience there is no greater chance of it then when I am fishing other styles.

[bassmaster658]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by RangerRodney &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Thai is my whole point. i to don't have any problem with guys going and having a ball catching fish all day long but when it injures the fish then that is a different story. Time will tell i guess </td></tr></table>

Are you sure you're not from PETA? "when it injures a fish I have a problem with it" Come on man, you can't be serious, NO other lure injures fish???? Really? Are you serious, that's your argument. Folks we are about to ban fishing altogether...since last time I checked ALL lures have hooks and some even 6-9 (Not A-rigs)?? Fact is some Fish will die with any lure used. Please read my post above from the email from KDFW about "mortalities not above expected harvest". If we as fishermen kill more fish this year it will be because of the A-rig I'm guessing the biologists have it under control but they may listen to "us" experts on the subject. Serioulsy, I'm for it's use but I have yet to see any data from our biologists that would change my opinion. Good discussion

[CaymasRodney]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by whitebassboy &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I feel like you are calling me a liar Rodney. I know for a fact that I have yet to snag a bass with the remaining hooks while fishing an arig. I also know for a fact that everyone does not catch fish with them. I watched people fishing Tuesday drop their trolling motor fish a bank on the lbl side, and then pick it up and leave without catching a fish. They may have tore them up somewhere else but they didnt catch one while they were around me. I have spoke to coworkers that have tried them and not caught any. I am trying to figure out why you were fishing one to begin with. If I was against something that I thought was hurting the sport I love I wouldnt be doing it. If I was foul hooking almost every bass I caught to the point I thought they might die when I put them back in I would stop using that technique. I have watched the Elias win twice and the Morehead win once on tv and did not notice issues with the fish being foul hooked. Now I realize that it does happen at times but in my experience there is no greater chance of it then when I am fishing other styles. </td></tr></table>

I did not call any one a lier, just stated what i have heard hundreds of people who i talk to every week say the same thing, never been on the lake before and go out and catch 70 fish a day and most say that a lot of the fish are foul hooked with more than three hooks. Now if u want to call those guys liers then that is your choice. Most all the well known tournament guys will tell u the same thing also. Just ask Gerald Swindale and the guys at bass what they think.


Again the resason i started this post was just to inform every one that they could have their say so where it counted in front of the Ky Fish and Wildlife, those for it can let it be known and those against it can let their concerns be know, simple as that, go to those meetings and let your voices be heard.

[whitebassboy]

So it is hundreds of people each week choosing to come to KY lake for the first time ever in the wintertime and they are all hammering the fish, even though they are foul hooking the majority of them. And this bothered you so much that before you continued to recommend banning the rig you decided to see how many you could catch on one. Unfortunately you found out they were right because you were foul hooking the majority of the ones you caught. Yet you kept casting it. Just making sure I understand all the background.

Pretty sad. I see a bunch of bitter people that apparantly believe that this bait has magic powers. It is so powerful that people that normally couldnt catch a fish in a bucket can put their boat in at any part of the lake and start loading the boat with lunkers. This just isn't right. These amatuers haven't put their time in learning the lake and don't deserve to catch those fish. And they sure don't deserve to win a check. They are just supposed to donate their money to those folks that deserve it.

I have listened to several cases like this over the years. In hunting the traditionalist were saying that inline muzzleloaders would ruin the sport. Crossbows would ruin bowhunting, and robo ducks would allow duck hunters to kill every duck in the sky. Ask a duck hunter how great a robo duck works now. Personally I think the A rigs have been good for the area. We have had the mildest winter that I have ever seen. Some people like me that would normally duck hunt have been fishing instead. Others have been hitting the lake because of the stories of the magic bait. I don't know about the hundreds of extra fishermen because I haven't been seeing the boats on the water to prove it. I do know that at a time of year that tackle sales normally slow down you couldnt buy a swimbait or a swimbait rod because they were sold out. I know that I have spent over 300 setting up an arig rod and buying swimbaits. Personally I haven't caught the numbers that some are because I have been after size instead. And I have caught some dandys including my personal best of about 8 pounds. I will continue to pitch it until the water warms up in March then I will shelve it until the shad stack up again.

[bassmaster658]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by RangerRodney &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Most all the well known tournament guys will tell u the same thing also. Just ask Gerald Swindale and the guys at bass what they think.

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Yep, just like two Elite Pros who recently purchased some swimbait heads AND A-rigs. I would rather not say who but let me say that they have publicly stated that they were against the use of it in the Elite Series. However, they may use it in the Opens (Double Standard?)? Let's just wait and see how many Elite guys end up throwing it in the Opens.

[CaymasRodney]

So it is hundreds of people each week choosing to come to KY lake for the first time ever in the wintertime and they are all hammering the fish, even though they are foul hooking the majority of them. And this bothered you so much that before you continued to recommend banning the rig you decided to see how many you could catch on one. Unfortunately you found out they were right because you were foul hooking the majority of the ones you caught. Yet you kept casting it. Just making sure I understand all the background. Quote


No not hundreds from out of state alone of hundreds of customers have said that to me personally,,,,,,,just like the media taking things out of tex. I have been tournament fishing for 40 years and i have seen a lot of stuff come and go on Ky Lake, this being a new product has taken off like crazy and a lot of people including my self was just wanting to see if it really worked as good as we have been told by those hundreds of people, i didn't say i wouldn't use it to compete with other guys in a tournament or even out playing, all i said was i thought it was bad for the fish health wise. I am no expert by any means on the health and welfare of fish, that is what we pay our professionals to do, i only am a few of the guys who like to go out and catch a few fish when i am off from work and have a good time also but i am also some one who is concerned about the future or our great lakes we have in Ky. That is why i will be at that meeting when it comes to Ky Dam to voice my opinion on the subject.

[TR21Bassin]

I don't care what the state does but I believe all tournaments should ban them.

There are other methods such as trolling, using live bait, etc that can be used when recreational fishing but not in tournaments.

If the state wants to completely ban it I have no issue with that either.

[Alliston64]

If you can troll with it as its been done for years with no complaints or motions for banning it, what makes it ok to ban it now that it can be cast with a rod???

It's just my opinion and may be a bad one, but these rally cries to have the bait banned altogether are stupid.

Many bass fisherman disagree with using live bait but there's never been a lynching mob out to have it banned and I'd be willing to bet my paycheck far more fish die being caught by live bait fisherman than those tossing a few swimbaits.

[Roddy]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Alliston64 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">If you can troll with it as its been done for years with no complaints or motions for banning it, what makes it ok to ban it now that it can be cast with a rod???

It's just my opinion and may be a bad one, but these rally cries to have the bait banned altogether are stupid.

Many bass fisherman disagree with using live bait but there's never been a lynching mob out to have it banned and I'd be willing to bet my paycheck far more fish die being caught by live bait fisherman than those tossing a few swimbaits. </td></tr></table>

Very good points.

[Bigtim68]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I don't care what the state does but I believe all tournaments should ban them.

There are other methods such as trolling, using live bait, etc that can be used when recreational fishing but not in tournaments.

If the state wants to completely ban it I have no issue with that either.

</td></tr></table>

Wonder if you'd feel the same if you sold swimbaits?

[skeeter tom]

Maybe we should do like the BASS Elites have done One Rod, One Line, One Lure, Four GPS/Sidefinders, Two Hydrowaves, Two Powerpoles, a $70,000 Bassboat. We don't want any advantage over the fish.

[agreynolds]

There are five hooks on my A-Rig there are nine on a rouge or 6 on a rattle trap This discussion about foul hooking is a bunch of chit started by a few guides and pros afraid that someone other than themselves will be successful catching fish. KVD foul hooks a bunch of the fish he catches on TV each year and no one is hollering that Strike King crankbaits should be banned. Just my opinion.

[whitebassboy]

"After a huge first day, during which Bertrand caught 18 pounds on an umbrella rig, his catch tapered off significantly. The dam area that proved to be so productive on Day One got swamped by heavy north winds the next two days. Though he was able to get there again today, the water temperature dropped, and it didn’t produce.
“With that big bag the first day, it’s been a stressful week, so I’m glad I’ll be able to relax on the way home,” said Bertrand, who hails from Arizona. “My goal is still to qualify for the Elite Series. I don’t know if it will happen this year or in 10 years, but I’m going to keep trying.”

So in the end the wacky-rigged finesse worm out-produced the castable umbrella rig for Central Open win and 2013 Classic berth for Chapman"

Like I was saying. The A rig is far from ruining tournament fishing. It didn't win this event and it is a non factor at the FLW event on the Big O. The fish will get used to it. An experiment was performed on bass to see if they can be programmed not to bite lures. The only lure that a bass would continue to hit over time was a plastic worm. I think the sport will survive the arig.

[CaymasRodney]

From what i can gather most people who have been fishing this bait for about a year all say the same thing, works great in the fall and winter when fish are suspended but not when they are on the bed or even close to being on the bed. One of the pros i know who has done great with it last fall also said the same thing in the shop the other day. Kind of like a DD22 when the fish are on the bed or in the real shallow water they don't throw a DD22 to catch them.

While it has been brought up again i talked to one pro and two guides who most of you know real good and all three told me the same thing, 80% or more of the fish they have caught (these guys fish 320 days a year) have had at least three hooks in them and sometimes four.

[bassmaster658]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by RangerRodney &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
While it has been brought up again i talked to one pro and two guides who most of you know real good and all three told me the same thing, 80% or more of the fish they have caught (these guys fish 320 days a year) have had at least three hooks in them and sometimes four. </td></tr></table>

Wonder what the stats are in relation to how many hooks "stick" a fish on a 3 treble hooked jerkbait or even a 2 treble hooked crankbait or topwater. Just curious as I say the fish numbers are equal because so many more people fish crankbaits, jerkbaits, and topwaters....just saying... a hook is a hook is a hook... and from my perspective a 3 trebled lure has 9 hooks while the A-rig can have up to 5(less hooks than any 2 treble hooked lure). Give us some mortality data or better yet ask them at the meeting about mortality using the A-rig. Your argument has no merit because it's biased.....We know..We know...your just informing everyone of the meeting