89 175GT Starting Problems

[fishlies]

89 Johnson VRO V6 175GT, Motor SN# R08250245

Starts OK in the morning (for a 21 yr old carbed motor) and runs smooth on plane. Doesn't idle very well.... Think I need to step-up the idle? Run for 15 or so minutes and shut her down - she will start right back up. Even after 15-20 mins she'll start. BUT, stop and fish for 30-60 mins or so and NO-GO! Doesn't seem to be getting gas. Fish for another hour or so and she fires right up! ????? This has already cost me some winnings in a tourney. : ( (Not to mention LOTS of frustration! ) Spark plugs are new and after the first time this happened, I replaced the fuel line from the fuel switch to the section just past the new fuel filter I also just installed... I have also pulled a plugwire and checked for spark and it seems to have plenty of spark. After cranking and cranking it will start to fire a little, but will not start. There is a small drip on the bottom of Carb #2 (was told that the o-ring needs replaced?). Is it possible this little leak could be causing any of this? I'm guessing it is getting some air somewhere/somehow and causing a "vapor lock"??? HELP!!!

[316jughead]

Does the primer bulb stay hard? When it finally starts does it smoke a lot for a few minutes? Any fuel leak is not safe, but a small leak wouldn't keep it from starting. If you think it's not getting enough fuel, just push in on the key.

[fishlies]

Primer bulb stays pretty firm. I can push in the key multiple times, hold it in, do whatever...... It just will not start. I think the key to this problem is the fact that it is getting up to operating temp and then being shut down for awhile... If you try to start within 20 mins or so - she'll fire right up.... Wait (Fish) for 40 mins to an hour and try to start and nothing starts but the cursing! I don't think it smokes excessively when it has set long enough and does start...

[316jughead]

Do you raise the warm up lever?

[fishlies]

Before I forget again... Thanks for replying!

Clue me in - what is the "warm-up" lever? Is that the "throttle lever" on the gear-shift? If so, this boat has a hotfoot installed....

[316jughead]

Yes the warm up lever is on the control box or you pull out the handle on the built in controls. Well now, a hot foot, OK, giving it a little gas when starting will advance the timing and open the carbs. Have you tried this? Be carefull you can over rev. When you first start your motor does it fast idle untill it warms up and then idle down? I had 8 of 1980's cross flow motors and every one of them after fishing for an hour or more I had to give them throttle to start. Anyway most of the time so I just always did it and they started right up.

[DoferGofer]

[fishlies]

Thanks again jughead - I have tried a little throttle, a little more throttle, etc... I even thought maybe I flooded it and tried WOT to get it going... Just seems if all the gas has evaporated or as I said before - a Vapor Lock???

When starting the first time - it doesn't necessarily "fast idle", but when it warms, it does idle down a bit. Sometimes it will idle for 5 minutes or so, sometimes only for seconds before it quits on me. Even when engine is warm it is flaky on the idle...

I've done a little more research on this and some folks are referring to the primer solenoid as a possible problem. I think I need to pull the hoses from it and see it it works. If the red lever is up - is that in auto or manual?

[316jughead]

Red lever should be parallel with the solenoid for run or auto.

If I had this motor to solve this problem:
1- Check linkage, throttle cam centered on timing link mark, wide open throttle, make sure nothing was hanging up, timerbase or carbs, look for fuel leaks
2- Check for spark on all cylinders
3- Pull spark plugs, look at plugs for deposits, dry, wet or fouled condition
4- Check compression, should be around 95lbs, even or within 10lbs
5- If all of the above checked out OK I would rebuild the carbs, do the sync and link, which includes setting top dead center and setting the idle timing, make sure quick start was working. Do a decarb.

When I had my shop I would also run on dyno to set top end timing and check HP output. Let motor set a while and see how it started. I left out some things I would have looked for but what I mentioned would fix it 99% of the time<br /><br />
Modified by 316jughead at 11:03 AM 9/26/2010


Modified by 316jughead at 11:17 AM 9/26/2010

[ChampioNman]

No need to pull the hoses unless you suspect that it isn't shooting out fuel. The proper position for the lever is pointing straight down. Simply press in the key in the run position and listen for an audible click. Have you checked to see if the quick start feature is working correctly?
Is the fuel leak coming from the bowl drain plug or the carb bowl itself? There are O rings on the drain plugs but if it is the gasket the carb will need to come off to replace it.

[guisertj]

I am having the same problem with my 90 175GT. I ran a decarb, and it seemed to help. If having trouble starting, give her full throttle till it starts to turn over putting as much air in the carbs as I can. This seems to help.

[ChampioNman]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by guisertj &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I am having the same problem with my 90 175GT. I ran a decarb, and it seemed to help. If having trouble starting, give her full throttle till it starts to turn over putting as much air in the carbs as I can. This seems to help.</td></tr></table>

You have some underlying issues. The Crossflows aren't subject to "Heat Soak". I'd replace every hose under the cowl. Remove the air silencers on the cowl for more air flow and test the quick start sensor. A switch to 89 proof may help at the pump too.

[guisertj]

Air silencers?
Are we talking about the foam in the cowling?

[ChampioNman]

No the covers over the louvers on the inside of the cowl.

[THE WITCHDOCTOR]

will it lean the motor out if you pull the covers off CM&gt;? If not, mine are coming off!

[ChampioNman]

Nope. Needs to breathe.

[fishlies]

Thanks again jughead - I have tried a little throttle, a little more throttle, etc... I even thought maybe I flooded it and tried WOT to get it going... Just seems if all the gas has evaporated or as I said before - a Vapor Lock???

When starting the first time - it doesn't necessarily "fast idle", but when it warms, it does idle down a bit. Sometimes it will idle for 5 minutes or so, sometimes only for seconds before it quits on me. Even when engine is warm it is flaky on the idle...

I've done a little more research on this and some folks are referring to the primer solenoid as a possible problem. I think I need to pull the hoses from it and see it it works. If the red lever is up - is that in auto or manual?

[fishlies]

Thanks again jughead - I have tried a little throttle, a little more throttle, etc... I even thought maybe I flooded it and tried WOT to get it going... Just seems if all the gas has evaporated or as I said before - a Vapor Lock???

When starting the first time - it doesn't necessarily "fast idle", but when it warms, it does idle down a bit. Sometimes it will idle for 5 minutes or so, sometimes only for seconds before it quits on me. Even when engine is warm it is flaky on the idle...

I've done a little more research on this and some folks are referring to the primer solenoid as a possible problem. I think I need to pull the hoses from it and see it it works. If the red lever is up - is that in auto or manual?

[fishlies]

Thanks again jughead - I have tried a little throttle, a little more throttle, etc... I even thought maybe I flooded it and tried WOT to get it going... Just seems if all the gas has evaporated or as I said before - a Vapor Lock???

When starting the first time - it doesn't necessarily "fast idle", but when it warms, it does idle down a bit. Sometimes it will idle for 5 minutes or so, sometimes only for seconds before it quits on me. Even when engine is warm it is flaky on the idle...

I've done a little more research on this and some folks are referring to the primer solenoid as a possible problem. I think I need to pull the hoses from it and see it it works. If the red lever is up - is that in auto or manual?

[fishlies]

ChampioNman,

I'm guessing you were directing that at "guisertj" or at both of us? (the underlying issues)... I'm back - had a 2 day tourney last week and my tourney partners boat engine blew within the first quarter mile of launch on the first day... We still managed to take almost a 3 lb lead the first day and hold off all but one team on the second day! Not bad for never seeing that water before and fishing solely on the trolling motor!

OK, back to business... Took my boat out yesterday for 5 hours... She idled good, ran good, and started EVERY time. The only thing I can think that I did different, is that I didn't fish any really skinny water, where I would normally trim the engine almost out of the water... Still can't think why that would make a difference... Yes, the carbs are on the front and they would be tilted down, and if that caused my leak to be increased, etc, etc But then why (even if all the fuel leaked from one carb bowl) would it not start, but in another hour or so - start right up? Any more thoughts guys?

I have another Tourney on Weds (13th) - will post after that to let you know any updates...

By the way - I've been leaving this page open and I have to "refresh" to get the new responses - and when I do, I notice it sends out my old response again - sorry about that!

Thanks again for ALL of the responses. They are GREATLY appreciated and hopefully with your help, we can get this resolved!