Oil vs. Green

[cast1]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TCast &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Punish us all now till something better comes along? </td></tr></table>

That is the general idea.

A partner of mine is a bleeding heart liberal who drives a prius. At least in his case, he contends that alternative energy will never be exploited as long as oil is cheap, therefore, if you want to save the planet, you must do whatever you can to drive up the price of oil so that electrics can compete. Change requires pain and the current bunch is happy to dole it out.

What I have failed to hear any environmentalist address is the basic calorimetry of it all. You know, the Law of Conservation of Energy. How much energy is liberated in propelling all the vehicles in america on a daily basis. That energy was laid up in store over billions of years. What are the environmental implications of the manufacture of sufficient batteries and energy production to charge them on a magnitude to replace fossil fuels? Hmm? Anyone?

[delee36]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by artcarney_agr &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

The lower the price of oil, the less incentive and/or demand for green.

</td></tr></table>

^^^^this^^^^
What was always the BIG hang up on green tech in the late 80's and the 90's...price. the reason green tech never moved forward is because it was so much more expensive to use than petroleum products...so how to fix that? Make petroleum cost close or as much as the green tech. "problem" solved.

In economics there is actually a term for it...someone who is into econ might know it...developed incentive or something like that.

[Rangerhgm]

The Government insists the people of our country are too fat.......so, by getting the price of gas so high you can't afford to go to the grocery (or the local fast food joint) the Government imposes an automatic diet on everyone.

the rich get richer and we get fit.....

[20_lb_sack]

Oil is priced GLOBALLY. The only way you are gonna get any cheap oil in the US is if you nationalize the oil companies and PROHIBIT them from selling on the global market. What capitalist company would sell oil for less than the market price?

[joevandal95]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by 20_lb_sack &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Oil is priced GLOBALLY. The only way you are gonna get any cheap oil in the US is if you nationalize the oil companies and PROHIBIT them from selling on the global market. What capitalist company would sell oil for less than the market price? </td></tr></table>

Exactly. It is amazing how people love capitalism until it causes gas prices to rise. By the way, we subsidize the oil companies even though they are making record profits.

[artcarney_agr]

[Buccaneer]

Oil "supply" is not the issue. If you focus on the fundamentals of supply & demand balance in the marketplace.

Demand - Global demand has been and will be steady for the foreseeable future – neither increasing nor decreasing materially. Despite a weak recovery, US energy consumption since the financial crisis in 2008 has been declining – down over 15%; as a result of the Sovereign Debt Crisis and austerity programs implemented throughout southern Europe as a means to combat the Crisis, the EU is sliding into a recession causing energy consumption to also decline – energy consumption in Europe has declined 8% between 2008 and 2011; and growth in Asia has remained robust, driven predominantly by China.

Supply - Stockpiles of crude and finished product (gas) in the U.S. are currently at levels above the five year average, the same cannot be said for Europe and Asia. As a result of Arab Spring, stockpiles in both Europe and Asia have been negatively affected. With the recent imposition of sanctions against Iran by the U.S. and an oil import ban by the EU, there can be little doubt that the flow of crude out of Iran and into the energy markets will be significantly
restricted. Saudi Arabia is already pumping well above its historic averages and will be hard-pressed to make up the loss of crude from Iran as well as the reduction from other smaller producers which have been affected by the Arab Spring (Yemen, Syria and Libya). Moreover, Iran’s continued defiance of the sanctions is increasing the probability of pre-emptive action being taken against it.

Market Effect - In the event Iran was to be subject to a pre-emptive strike by the
U.S. or Israel, there can be little doubt that the markets would send oil prices significantly higher. Some estimates of such an event would cause a spike in prices in excess of $150 per barrel. The risk of a supply disruption due to geopolitical factors are uncomfortably high and increasing. Although prices in recent weeks have increased to account for this possibility, the full impact of a military strike has not been priced into the markets.

Geopolitical instability makes the market nervous. Nervous markets drive prices. In the absence of a military strike on Iran, the most likely scenario is oil & gas prices remain at current levels.

[Alan S]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by joevandal95 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
By the way, we subsidize the oil companies even though they are making record profits.</td></tr></table>

We don't "Subsidize" oil companies. We give them tax breaks to keep more of the money they earn.

Subsidize: to aid or promote (as a private enterprise) with public money &lt;subsidize soybean farmers&gt; &lt;subsidize public transportation&gt;

Oil companies get $0 from the government. The ethanol industry is an entirely different critter, though.

[SkidMark]

That is a well thought out post. Thank you. Yes oil is a supply and demand product, but prices are driven by anything and everything. The biggest drivers are the speculators outside of a crisis.

That said, you increase the supply, the prices go down. I know for a fact Iraq is pumping more oil than the Iran embargo difference makes. Iraq, although an original member of OPEC, is basically new to the market since the Saddam days. They will have the ability soon to pump more than Saudi. There are alot of articles on it.

The US has serious oil. Get the red tape out of the way, the politicians with other than "country first" mode...get them out of the way....allow exploration and drilling equal to North Dakota, build new refineries...and watch the price come down fast.

Back when gas got over $4 a gallon and GW Bush announced the opening of many places for exploration...and gas was selling for under $2 a gallon within 6 months. It is VERY DO-ABLE...just our current admin does not want that to happen.

[earthworm77]

The bottom line is that the public is being punished for the failure of the gov't to:
1- secure a reasonable alternative to oil
2- secure its own oil until said alternative comes to fruition....from friendly non hostile sources.

The increase in fuel prices causes everything else to increase. Part of me thinks this was done by design and has nothing to do with alternative fuels and everything to do with getting more people reliant on the gov't for entitlement programs. For this reason, it is terrifying to me to think what could happen if the current administration gets re elected, God help us. With nothing to lose, they would be extremely dangerous to Amercian liberty and life.

just a few comparsions:
gas 4 years ago was at 1.89 now it is around 4.00
twinkies were .79 now they are 1.59
standard loaf of bread 1.50........now 3.00
eggs .89.......now I've seen over 3.00
ice cream 2.89.....now up to and over 5.00 a 1/2 gal
box of Cheerios 1.99....now 4.59
can of Chunky soup- .89 ......now over 1.79

how much has your salary increased to keep up with these costs? I'm betting for most of us.....it hasn't increased at all.

[Skeet22]

Cut it slice it and dice it any way want but although the prices are regulated globally by opec the US is a key part of that price and there are things our government can do to help drive the cost down but this tree huggin administration will not do that bc it plays right into their green future bs plan and like others said the higher the price of oil and the bigger the profits of the oil companies the more taxes they pay to our goverment to help aid in these green projects.

It's a win win for the huggers as it triggers support for more affordable clean energy and less dependence on oil and feeds more money to goverment to fund the BS..

[SkidMark]

where's da hammer...you NAILED it!!

[aussiebasser]

How much cheaper than the rest of the world do you whiners want your gas prices?

What makes you all think that the US has some God given right to cheaper energy prices than the rest of the world?

When your US price meets our Australian price, $6.85 per gallon if you do all the conversions, then you can all jump up on your soap boxes and save the world.

[brnzbaklvr]

I know it is Wikipedia but it is a pretty good read on where taxpayer money is going and subsidies given to oil and green energy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

[brnzbaklvr]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by aussiebasser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">How much cheaper than the rest of the world do you whiners want your gas prices?

What makes you all think that the US has some God given right to cheaper energy prices than the rest of the world?

When your US price meets our Australian price, $6.85 per gallon if you do all the conversions, then you can all jump up on your soap boxes and save the world.</td></tr></table>

Because we run around saving everyone's A$$........... Keep talking and we will come take your $hit.... J/K....

[brokejeep]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by aussiebasser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">How much cheaper than the rest of the world do you whiners want your gas prices?

What makes you all think that the US has some God given right to cheaper energy prices than the rest of the world?

When your US price meets our Australian price, $6.85 per gallon if you do all the conversions, then you can all jump up on your soap boxes and save the world.</td></tr></table>

How much does health insurance cost down there? What about Dr. visits?
There was a body builder from your part of the world bitching about the USA and the cost of medical care and was saying that when he went back home for a surgery that he got money for going to the Dr. Is this true?

[SkidMark]

Ain't my fault you live on a huge island also called Shagra-la and haveta import.

We have enough oil here to take care of the entire North American continent for 100's of years. There is no reason we need to be held captive by the world oil market and all the BS that goes with it.

[aussiebasser]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by brokejeep &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

How much does health insurance cost down there? What about Dr. visits?
There was a body builder from your part of the world bitching about the USA and the cost of medical care and was saying that when he went back home for a surgery that he got money for going to the Dr. Is this true?</td></tr></table>

Health Insurance is 1% of my gross wage. Doctor visit is free. Dunno who you're listening to, but a body builder could well be complaining that his steroids aren't free.

[aussiebasser]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by SkidMark &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Ain't my fault you live on a huge island also called Shagra-la and haveta import.

We have enough oil here to take care of the entire North American continent for 100's of years. There is no reason we need to be held captive by the world oil market and all the BS that goes with it.</td></tr></table>

Just a tiny bit of research wouldn't kill you.

[20_lb_sack]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by aussiebasser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">How much cheaper than the rest of the world do you whiners want your gas prices?

What makes you all think that the US has some God given right to cheaper energy prices than the rest of the world?

When your US price meets our Australian price, $6.85 per gallon if you do all the conversions, then you can all jump up on your soap boxes and save the world.</td></tr></table>
When Gas hits $7.00 a gallon here, the riots in Greece a few weeks ago, will look like a trip to Disney land compared to what happens here.