Deciding between 200 HPDI and 225F

[jejb]

Looking at buying a Skeeter SL210. We can get the 200 2 stroke Yammie or the 225 4 stroke on the back (but not the 225 2 stroke). I know the 4 stroke is more expensive up front, weighs more and is slightly slower. But I'm still leaning that way to not have the expense of the pricey injector oil, to get the better mileage and to get the quieter motor. Also, my experience with both types of motors suggests the 4 stroke will be more reliable in the long run.

But I'm wondering about the maint on the 4 stroke. I'm very mechanically inclined, rebuild my 2 and 4 stroke dirt bikes, set valves, etc. I'm well tooled and detail oriented, but not a pro wrench turner. So will I be able to handle the maint on the 4 stroke? What all is required in any given year (or two) for maint on the 225f? If I can do the maint myself, it would really seem to remove any stumbling blocks to getting a 4 stroke for me.

I know the 4 vs 2 stroke debate rages on. I see the same thing with my dirt bike forums. But any reliability warnings for either motor? I will own the boat for 10-20 years most likely, so want it to last.



Modified by jejb at 1:55 AM 6/1/2009

[PSM207]

I can't speak for the F225, but 5 years ago I made the decision to go with the F150 on my SL190. I am very pleased with my decision and I will no longer own 2 strokes.

The weight difference between the HPDI 200 and F250 is about 40lbs, with performance being very close.

Get in touch with Jason Hale, as he has hands on experience with the F225 on his Skeeter ZX. I believe he did some of the initial testing of the F225 on the SL210.

[skeet210]

I've got a F225 on the back of mine. I was hesitant at first but after taking it out the first time, I was sold. You will be surprised how quiet the motor is and the gas mileage is unbelievable. You will sacrifice about 3 mph but I would rather give up that than the money it takes to fuel a 2 stroke. Maintenance, I get the oil changed once a year and it is better on plugs and such. Just my opinion.

[jejb]

Thanks for the replies so far. So all that is required for maint on the F's is changing oil once a year? I know that's part of it, but from reading the "2 vs 4" threads, it sounds like there is more to it than that, at least if you follow the manufacturers recommendations. Is that not true?

There is just over 100lbs difference between the two subject motor, 475 vs 583.

[PSM207]

According to my Yamaha Product Info Guide, the 200 HPDI Vmax Series 2 weighs 539# and the F225 Sport weighs 586#, for a difference of 47#.

I too do annual oil changes on both the crankcase and lower unit. As far as additional maintenance, overall the 4 strokes require less. You can download the manuals for each motor and compare.

[esoxfly]

Get the 225. And we're talking the 225 Sport. My 225 Sport should be here TODAY and installed by the end of the week. I blew my 200 OX66 a month ago and just went through the HPDI vs F motor myself. Everything for me pointed to the four stroke. It comes down to how you use your boat and what you expect from it. I'm a muskie guy in a big muskie hull that doesn't fish tournements. My boat maxes out in the low 50s, so I'm not worried about 3 mph, or the extra weight. Many muskie guys are out there with 100 lb kickers on their boats, and I don't have a kicker, so I figure weight-wise I'll be right there with them. The various places I've looked put the weight difference most often about 100 lbs, but I've seen differing weights. Suffice it to say, the four stroke weighs more.

As far as maintenance, it's a bit more than change the oil, but when I asked this same question, I got a couple of guys that said, "no! They're so much more maintenance!" But really didn't have anything to back that up with. Then the guys that actually own them chimed in saying that in fact there's not more. I think alot of guys see the scheduled inspection on the timing belt, at (I can't remember) 100 or 300 hrs and think that's a huge deal and therefor, they're "tons more maintenance."

I've talked to a couple of guys that have the sport and they abso-freaking-lutely love them. And these are bass guy who fish tx's. I for one, while I can't speak to it's performance, can't wait to get mine on the water later this week.

And oh yeah, I'm looking forward to not dumping 2M into it at $33/gal all summer long.




Modified by esoxfly at 11:46 AM 6/1/2009

[iron banks]

I have a 225 hpdi and a F250 on a bay boat. Unless you need the extra speed the four stroke is the winner. Hole shot is improved over earlier models, top end is getting closer and acceleration is much improved. I loved 2 strokes like everyone else but there days are numbered.

[jejb]

When I go to Yamaha's webpage, they only list one HPDI 200 outboard. It's specs say 475lbs. The Vmax series 2 225hp is listed at 539lbs, though. Are those both HPDI's? So I should be looking for a 225 that says Vmax, and not just HPDI? Does Vmax mean series 2 HPDI? Lots to learn, I guess!

Same question on the 225F, I guess. I see there are 2 models, a sport and high power model. I'm assuming we're talking about the high power, but how does one tell the difference looking at them?

[Darth VMAX]

The lighter 200 is the 2.6L 200 HPDI with a 25" shaft. Good motor but doesn't have the power of the 3.3L 200 VMAX.

My. 02 is the other way. 2-stroke 200 VMAX and then Hydro-Tec that bad boy!!!

SL210 is a nice boat. Great Choice

[skeet210]

I would choose the F225 High power, that is what I was making my basis on. Visually you can tell the difference by looking at the cowling. The design is slightly different. The weight on the F225 HP is like 580pounds +-. If you send me your e-mail address, I can send you a copy of the owners manual for the F200, F225, and F250 to check the maintenance on them. I said the oil change is once every year but I should have determined how much you actually use it of course. I don't put 100 hrs a year on my boat so I still change it once a year. You alson have to check the gear oil and other fluids just like on a 2 stroke.

[jejb]

I apparently can't send private messages, etc here. Probably not enough posts yet or something. So my email address is "jejb @ att.net", without the blanks.

[Jason Hale]

On the SL210 you will be getting a F225 Sport, the sport is the 20" shaft version. You will not be dissappointed in your decision. Like stated, I have it on my ZX225 and absolutely love it. I can run for days on a tank of fuel and don't have any oil to mess with. Yes, I am 2MPH slower with factory set up, (Marks props and a little dialing in and that has changed ). Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have, but like I said, you won't regret the F225.

[esoxfly]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jejb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I go to Yamaha's webpage, they only list one HPDI 200 outboard. It's specs say 475lbs. The Vmax series 2 225hp is listed at 539lbs, though. Are those both HPDI's? So I should be looking for a 225 that says Vmax, and not just HPDI? Does Vmax mean series 2 HPDI? Lots to learn, I guess!

Same question on the 225F, I guess. I see there are 2 models, a sport and high power model. I'm assuming we're talking about the high power, but how does one tell the difference looking at them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, the Series 2 are HPDI, and that's what you'd be looking at.

Likewise, as was said, you're looking for the 225 Sport model. The standard four strokes are 25" shafts. The Sport model, with the TLR designation, compared to TXR, is a 20" shaft, and it's actually more similar to the 250. It's got the 250's VCT and alot of it's upgrades over the standard 225 and 200. It's Yamaha's four stroke offering to bass boat guys who need a 20" shaft, better low end and hole shot and it's supposed to just be a monster.

......And mine should be here today!!!!

[Darth VMAX]

I never understood why Yamaha is so scared to allow the 225 VMAX on the SL210. That alone should tell you what is going to perform better I guess it depends on what is your priority in boating.

Acceleration and top-end performance= VMAX Series 2 HPDI
200 VMAX HPDI (not series 2) Skeeter SL210
65 MPH @ 5800 RPM, 19.3 GPH 3.37 MPG
Cruise: 31.4 mph @ 3000 RPM 4.76 MPG
Seconds to plane 3.76 Sec.

F225 Sport/SL210
63.7 MPH @ 6100 RPM, 17.9 GPH, 3.56 MPG
Cruise: 27.6 mph @ 3000 RPM, 6.13 MPG
Seconds to plane 3.93 Sec.


They are both effecient motors. The DFI's do not use oil like the old Carb counterparts. Remember, this is a 200 vs a 225. Imagine what the SL210 would do if Skeeter would allow the 225 Series 2 HPDI

[esoxfly]

That's a good comparison, but for the 1.3 mph between the two, and the 2-3 mph on the 225 vs 225, I think (for me) the four stroke FAR outweighs (litterally too) the two stroke.

[reelman]

I thought for months before getting a 200HDPI over a 4 stroke...that was 2007, this is now...
I would say../due to the new no-drill no-nuke power political climate...
a 4 stroke is a great way to hedge your $4 a gallon bets.
Had I to do it over...it would be the 4 hands down.

[jejb]

Top speed is not a critical part of the decision. A 60mph boat is going to be plenty fast enough for my recreational only needs. I'd for sure give up 2mph and the tiny holeshot disadvantage to not have to buy the 2 stroke oil. Speaking of which, why did that stuff sky rocket the last couple of years in price? I was used to buying Evinrude oil for $15 a gallon for our 150 XP outboard up until recently. I hadn't bought any for quite a while, but the jump to $35-40 was a shocker! I know oil prices spiked last summer, but are now back down. Did the makers use that as an excuse to jack up prices and just forget to bring them back down?

I really have to figure out when a motor is a "series 2", though. Does a series 2 Vmax always say "series 2" on the cover somewhere? I'm still leaning towards the 225f, but I'd like to know what I'm looking at, too. How can I tell for sure everytime if it's a series 2? I know with Evinrude, they're well marked XP (older designation, I know) or HO.

I appreciate you guys bringing me up to speed on this stuff!

[Darth VMAX]

Just like I said... It depends on what are YOUR priorities. I want any performance advantage I can get (plus I am died in the wool 2-stroke guy) Starting last year all of the 3.3L VMAX HPDI's are now Series 2's. This includes the 200, 225, 250 and 300 HP. The 2.6L VMAX HPDI's are 150 and 175 (used to make a 200, 2004 being the last year for the 200) these are not Series 2's

The Series 2 have some tweaks and small changes to them. Hydro-tec dynod them and showed the Series 2 being 20 hp stronger at the powerhead than the original 3.3L HPDI's. Whether that translates into stronger performance is debatable.

Either way you selected a very nice Fish-n-ski congrats

[Reata210]

I went through the same considerations when I bought my Ranger Reata210, with the difference being Ranger allowing the 225 2 stroke on the 210. I was not ready to make the switch to the 4 stroke after having my last Yamaha 2 stroke almost 16 years. I ended up going with the 225 HPDI and so far it is great. I have to say it is one smooth powerful engine that is a great match with my rig. I think I made the right decision going 2 but only time will tell. Time would be the only test if it were the 4 as well. As far as maintenance…they both require it and overall you will spend about the same amount of time and $ with either. Me personally I like spending time with my boat on the lake or wrenching in the garage doing routine maintenance a couple times a year. I think both would be fine very reliable engines for you. Either way enjoy the boat!

[jejb]

The other boat on our list is a new 08 Reata 210, with a 225 Evinrude HO on it. It's even located locally. But I just can't get over that I'd have to pay several thousand more for a slower boat. As I said, top speed is not a critical consideration, but it's hard to overlook the math on this one.