Etec's still hard to start

[CandR]

twin 200 small blocks, (2007 motors).

Been having this hard to start thing for quite some time now, first thing in the morning. Once they start, they run fine all day. can shut down, restart, no issues, only first thing in the morning. they also start anytime, just fine, on muffs; its only in the water that the issue arises.

We have replaced injectors, and even powerhead, yet problem remains.

Anybody have any ideas?? Starter? spark plugs? lift pump?? batteries??

thanks alot.

My mechanic is top notch, and I feel he will root out the problem, just looking anywhere for potential ideas.

thanks alot.

[SEAHORSE]

use a digital voltmeter and connect the + lead to the starter terminal, not the cable, and the - lead to the starter frame. Have someone crank the motor over first thing in the morning while you watch the voltage readings.

If they are below 10 volts, most likely you have weak or undersized batteries, cable or connection problems, or corrosion somewhere in the circuits.

A healthy battery with good cables should provide at least 10 volts to the starter terminal while cranking the motor over for 15 seconds.

[Chunder]

Not sure it it's the same problem I was having a while ago but one of the gurus on this board told me to tilt up my motor just enough for the water intake to be under the water.....somethink to do with exhaust pressure ?????....anyway it fixed mine.
Chunder

[CandR]

Seahorse, thanks for the suggestion.

He's always been concerned about the batteries, but i think there were multiple problems at the same time, so difficult to pinpoint one cause.

Now that we've fixed a lot of things, we're back to looking into my battery issues.

How many CCA's do I need if my batteries are in my center console? Also, what gauge cables are reccommended for the 10-12' run back to the motors??

I would be disappointed to spend 3-400 on big marine 1000 CCA batteries only to find this didnt fix the problem-this is my only concern.


cheers

[CandR]

Chunder,

Thanks for the reccommendation. I think i do remember reading that somewhere.

While that may work, I think that is a bandaid solution. Is that really the way the motors are designed to work? I don't think so, and not everyone has to do this to get their motors started. I know plenty of folks that have zero issues with their Etec's. I would not want that to be my solution. But I do agree, it is a back pressure issue on the exhaust relative to running on muffs.

cheers

[SEAHORSE]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CandR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He's always been concerned about the batteries, but i think there were multiple problems at the same time, so difficult to pinpoint one cause.

Now that we've fixed a lot of things, we're back to looking into my battery issues.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gotta check the voltages first to see if it is a battery/cable issue


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CandR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How many CCA's do I need if my batteries are in my center console? Also, what gauge cables are reccommended for the 10-12' run back to the motors??

I would be disappointed to spend 3-400 on big marine 1000 CCA batteries only to find this didnt fix the problem-this is my only concern.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you see the minimum battery specs for a motor, that does not include the capacity that you need for the boat's systems and electronics.

a 750 or higher battery should work OK, get the largest you can fit and afford.

[CandR]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SEAHORSE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Gotta check the voltages first to see if it is a battery/cable issue


When you see the minimum battery specs for a motor, that does not include the capacity that you need for the boat's systems and electronics.

a 750 or higher battery should work OK, get the largest you can fit and afford.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a starting battery for each motor (I believe its ~750 CCA's), as well as a deep cycle for all electronics, pumps, etc. The starting batteries only start and trim the motors, although the bilge pumps are also hard wired to them, but the boat is on a trailer, so there shouldnt be much draw, i hope.

I guess I was wondering then, given that there is a 10-12' run, do I need even bigger batteries.

[rudetech1]

If you have a battery switch older than a couple of years, replace it. I like to use big cables for the batteries. This allows a lot of amp draw on the engine. There can also be a solenoid issue. Do as Seahorse says first before going any further. You gotta know the voltage drop to determine where the issue lyes.

[Sportwin]

Please post your model numbers and serial numbers.
Has your technician contacted BRP tech service and determined the engine software is the latest version?

[CandR]

yes- like i said, I've had new maps, injectors, and even a new powerhead, and the problem still exisits. This has all been with BRP's ok, so I imagine they are in constant communication.

[ELGIN]

Model and serial numbers PLEASE??????????????????????????????

[CandR]

ok, sorry, don't have serial #'s on me at work today- will have to get back to you on this, but they are twin 200 small blocks, 2007's.

E200DCXSUF (port)
5148755

E200DPXSUR (starboard)
5147049

I think the model and serial # may have changed on the starboard motor- with the new powerhead, i was told that i now had the same models...so a new SUF for the starboard? I don't have a new printout for that motor yet.


Modified by CandR at 6:38 AM 11/19/2008

[RDOCK]

A friend of mine had what sounds to be the same problem. The first start in the morning was crank, crank, crank! Once it started it was fine all day long. It was driving him nuts!! It was the fuel pump. Had it replaced under warranty, and problem is gone. Just another option to look at!

[CandR]

That's what i always felt it was.

When I eventually do get it to start firsth thing in the AM, as soon as I turn the key, I immediatley throttle up to give it gas, so she stays lit. Seems like its just not getting enough fuel???

Although, i guess there maybe other potential reasons for this....but i will definitely ask to get this looked at. Scheduled to see my mechanic first thing next week.

Oh, it drove me nuts a long time ago, as well.....i think i'm way past nuts at this point.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[RDOCK]

I asked him how the mechanic found out it was the fuel pump. He said as soon as he hooked it up to the computer, he knew. This was on a 2007-150 ho E-Tec.

[CandR]

Update:

Well, we didnt do the voltage drop test as inquired about here, but we did put the boat in the water, and hooked up a separate large cranking battery with ~4' of cable directly to the motor, and tried to start the motors.

One was still difficult to start, and misfired a couple of times. The other started better, but this seems to be an intermittant thing. Some days, both have bad starting issues, some days, one is worse than the other. Today, one was worse than the other. After getting then started, and throttling up a few times, they started every time, which is consistent....its only a cold start issue.

BRP is providing a new MAP, so once again, we will have to sit and see if this helps.

Whatever the voltage drop is, having a cranking battery and 4' of cable tells me that there is more here than a simple battery issue.

Frustrating.

[SEAHORSE]

Anybody ever pull the sparkplugs and check the condition and the gaps?

[CandR]

I do know that my mechanic did find one that was broken early on (first visit, I think), and replaced it.

I don't know for sure if they were all pulled and measured, though. I don't know if that is standard practice or not.

It seems like I am not the only one to experience this problem, and that some of us are lucky enough to get the problem resolved, and others not.

[Garfish]

You may have already solved the problems with your cold start issues but just in case you haven't, have you checked the fuel delivery system? Have you checked the lines for restrictions or kinks that may happened during installation? Have you checked the fuel bulb to see if it is tight before you try to crank? Has your tech performed a fuel lift pump pressure test to eliminate a fuel pump issue If you're not smelling a lot of gas and you are turning the engine over that much it could be a fuel delivery problem. Just some thoughts..........G

[CandR]

Garfish,

Thanks- I will mention these suggestions next time I see him, and no, problem not solved yet.

Odd thing is, a number of folks seem to have had this issue, and gotten it solved by either new maps, injectors, fuel filter, batteries, etc....so it doesnt seem to me like it just one thing.