4 year Lithium Review from an average fisherman

[mtatua]

Here we go for anyone considering Lithium batteries, this is what I consider an honest evaluation for average people like me.

I consider myself an average fisherman with an average boat (Tracker Targa). I fish midwest waters here in Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri and Arkansas. I usually make day trips or stay at state parks and/or fishing type resorts for up to week long trips. I'm never away from power for multiple days. I fish like most everyone else does with a mixture of spot lock and foot control for bass fishing.

I have a 24 volt 80 lb Ulterra. 2013 Targa V18. Stored in powered, climate-controlled warehouse year round here in Nebraska.

Since I generally like new technology, but have an average budget, 4 years ago I got a pair of Tracker Lithium (by Relion) 80 ah group 27s to replace my original Interstate 27s. Bought a NOCO GenPRO 3X10 (1 bank for FLA starting batt). I bought into all the marketing hype. Super cycle life, low weight, full capacity drawdown, 5-10+ year warranty maybe, etc etc etc.

1st three~ish years all good. They are super light weight, but I'm not looking for that 2 mph speed increase. And once they're mounted in boat, I ain't moving them around, so who cares how much they weight. But Lithiums are light, no doubt.

Last summer, for no apparent reason on Lake Quachita one of the two decided to shut off. The trolling motor just powered down. I carry a volt meter, so quickly determined one had went to sleep. Odd. Both were charged 100% (according to the NOCO) that morning, and it was an average day about lunchtime. No circuit breaker trip. 10 mph wind. Not hot, it was March in Arkansas. Had to find some wire in the boat to jump one off the other (unhook the series connection, then rehook it) cause I needed to stow the ulterra and that manual stow procedure sucks butt. It was an inconvienence and we headed back to the marina slip and hooked into power. The battery jumped back above 75% in less than 30 minutes and all seemed ok.

Well, the same battery slowly got worse about doing that the rest of the year. Same battery, I marked it. Tried different charger. Emailed Relion for help, but they didn't offer much. I should have pursued warranty claim immediately I guess, hindsight 20-20. I bought a capacity tester (like the youtube guys have) and tested the mess out that battery. 80 ah on the dot over and over at home. Never shut off once while testing. I maxed the tester out pulling 20 amps for 4 hours and everything in between. I bought and installed the Amped Outdoors bluetooth smart shunt. Easy to setup and use. Interesting to note that on power 7, my Ulterra draws about 10-11 amps if I remember correctly. Amp draw is on my motor is not quite double the power number (so about 7-8 amps on power 5 for example).

So here I was this last weekend down in Kansas, monitor showing 87% charge, and that darned thing shut off again. Ruined a nice Sunday afternoon. I promptly went to O'Reilly's and bought two group 27's old school FLA. Fished Monday with no problems and wasn't worried I'd burn up a circuit board in that 2020 Ulterra.

So here's the short version. Lithiums are awesome. All the marketing hype. Until they're not. There's a Chinese circuit board in that thing. Now I know there's circuit boards in lots of things on a boat, but I can do without a graph. Can't fish very well without a trolling motor. And I need power to stow that Ulterra. Probably should have a terrova with lithiums for that reason alone.

So for the average fisherman, which I bet the majority of us are here, I'm saying good old regular FLAs are the best bet. If you take care of em, 4-5 years easy unless you fish a ton (and therefore you're not "average" like us). They're simple, they work and they're cheap. If you're like me, think long and hard before paying that premium unless you have a REAL need for lithiums. I struggle to think of a REAL need now that I think about it.

Sure, that lithium has a 10 year warranty. Those companies may help you out if you have trouble. I believe they will. But what a hassle if you do have trouble. Maybe you won't. Hopefully you won't. I work a lot and look forward to time on the water. Need reliable stuff. You'll probably think "ha, he wants reliable stuff and has a tracker boat!". but it is. That optimax is reliable. That FLA starting battery is. Those Garmin's I got are. But those two lithiums...

Just like the cooler industry that convinced everyone they need a $350 40lb 7-day-ice roto-molded cooler for an afternoon at the lake, the marketers win again!

[Bjxds]

If I understand correctly, you contacted Relion about a warranty issue, but did not follow up and now wish you would have?

[Bill Reynolds]

Thanks for posting. I have two 50AH ReDoDo powering a 80# Ultrex for about 3 years now. I have not had any problems but I see a lot of posts about BMS glitches of all brands. It doesn’t matter how good the warranty is if you are stuck on the water in the middle of a 4 day trip, 600 miles from home on a trip you get to do once per year.

It is All about the BMS and the more of them that are in series the more likely you are for something in the circuit to shut one down. Makes me think you are better off with one 24v or 36v battery with one BMS but that lcost breaks my budget. The 50 AH Chinese batteries are all I can afford.

I went with Lithium because of weight, I tinker a lot and find myself removing the batteries for other reasons other than failure. I don’t kid myself about the warranty. if I do have a failure, I will probably just have to buy another battery but now a 100AH costs about the same as the AGM on my outboard and I can get it delivered in 3 days.

[mikeky]

If I understand correctly, you contacted Relion about a warranty issue, but did not follow up and now wish you would have?

Curious as well. 4 years old, 10 year warranty, what is the outcome?

[justinp61]

Here we go for anyone considering Lithium batteries, this is what I consider an honest evaluation for average people like me.

I consider myself an average fisherman with an average boat (Tracker Targa). I fish midwest waters here in Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri and Arkansas. I usually make day trips or stay at state parks and/or fishing type resorts for up to week long trips. I'm never away from power for multiple days. I fish like most everyone else does with a mixture of spot lock and foot control for bass fishing.

I have a 24 volt 80 lb Ulterra. 2013 Targa V18. Stored in powered, climate-controlled warehouse year round here in Nebraska.

Since I generally like new technology, but have an average budget, 4 years ago I got a pair of Tracker Lithium (by Relion) 80 ah group 27s to replace my original Interstate 27s. Bought a NOCO GenPRO 3X10 (1 bank for FLA starting batt). I bought into all the marketing hype. Super cycle life, low weight, full capacity drawdown, 5-10+ year warranty maybe, etc etc etc.

1st three~ish years all good. They are super light weight, but I'm not looking for that 2 mph speed increase. And once they're mounted in boat, I ain't moving them around, so who cares how much they weight. But Lithiums are light, no doubt.

Last summer, for no apparent reason on Lake Quachita one of the two decided to shut off. The trolling motor just powered down. I carry a volt meter, so quickly determined one had went to sleep. Odd. Both were charged 100% (according to the NOCO) that morning, and it was an average day about lunchtime. No circuit breaker trip. 10 mph wind. Not hot, it was March in Arkansas. Had to find some wire in the boat to jump one off the other (unhook the series connection, then rehook it) cause I needed to stow the ulterra and that manual stow procedure sucks butt. It was an inconvienence and we headed back to the marina slip and hooked into power. The battery jumped back above 75% in less than 30 minutes and all seemed ok.

Well, the same battery slowly got worse about doing that the rest of the year. Same battery, I marked it. Tried different charger. Emailed Relion for help, but they didn't offer much. I should have pursued warranty claim immediately I guess, hindsight 20-20. I bought a capacity tester (like the youtube guys have) and tested the mess out that battery. 80 ah on the dot over and over at home. Never shut off once while testing. I maxed the tester out pulling 20 amps for 4 hours and everything in between. I bought and installed the Amped Outdoors bluetooth smart shunt. Easy to setup and use. Interesting to note that on power 7, my Ulterra draws about 10-11 amps if I remember correctly. Amp draw is on my motor is not quite double the power number (so about 7-8 amps on power 5 for example).

So here I was this last weekend down in Kansas, monitor showing 87% charge, and that darned thing shut off again. Ruined a nice Sunday afternoon. I promptly went to O'Reilly's and bought two group 27's old school FLA. Fished Monday with no problems and wasn't worried I'd burn up a circuit board in that 2020 Ulterra.

So here's the short version. Lithiums are awesome. All the marketing hype. Until they're not. There's a Chinese circuit board in that thing. Now I know there's circuit boards in lots of things on a boat, but I can do without a graph. Can't fish very well without a trolling motor. And I need power to stow that Ulterra. Probably should have a terrova with lithiums for that reason alone.

So for the average fisherman, which I bet the majority of us are here, I'm saying good old regular FLAs are the best bet. If you take care of em, 4-5 years easy unless you fish a ton (and therefore you're not "average" like us). They're simple, they work and they're cheap. If you're like me, think long and hard before paying that premium unless you have a REAL need for lithiums. I struggle to think of a REAL need now that I think about it.

Sure, that lithium has a 10 year warranty. Those companies may help you out if you have trouble. I believe they will. But what a hassle if you do have trouble. Maybe you won't. Hopefully you won't. I work a lot and look forward to time on the water. Need reliable stuff. You'll probably think "ha, he wants reliable stuff and has a tracker boat!". but it is. That optimax is reliable. That FLA starting battery is. Those Garmin's I got are. But those two lithiums...

Just like the cooler industry that convinced everyone they need a $350 40lb 7-day-ice roto-molded cooler for an afternoon at the lake, the marketers win again!

IMHO, the entire fishing industry revolves around marketing. Pay a pro to use it and say it's the best thing since sliced bread and watch the $$$ roll in, LOL.

I did replace my lead acid starting/electronics battery with lithium. I purchased a Impulse, they had the best warranty of al the ones I looked at. Only time will tell how well it holds up.

[champ210]

AGM here. I get out about 6 to 10 times a yr. All about 400 miles or more from home. My time on the water is valuable to me so breakdowns must be limited. I've been lucky and never been stranded but i just can't trust lithiums yet.

[bobcoy]

OP Did you contact Bass Pro directly? Something is not adding up. What warranty period was quoted when you purchased. In the meantime, Relion was sold. BPS is who and where to go for coverage on your warranty.
TIP: Know how to jumpstart your BMS and have a jump pack or the proper jumpers to wake up your BMS if something trips off your battery.

[leonreno]

I bought three Lead acid batteries from Walmart for my trolling motor a few years ago because lithiums were much more expensive and if I’m traveling to fish there is usually a Walmart nearby if I need to swap one out. But now that you can get a decent (a better quality Chinese) 36v 55ah lithium battery for $500, I would probably choose that for the smaller size than three group 27 batteries and the weight savings. But the more tech we use the more things that can break.

[OverTimeAgain]

125ah ionic was $700 weighs 30lbs
120ah x2 power am was $500 weighs 84lbs

Walmart 27 series lead 90ah cost $100 weigh 65lbs
Amazon 27 series lithium 100ah cost $300 weigh 27lbs


I fish 18hr+ days, and a few electric only lakes. I had to swap trolling batteries every 18 months, and big agm every 3 years.


If my lithiums last 5 years total it will easily save me money. The weight, app tracking, and flat discharge curve are only a bonus to me.



In this day and age there are no reasons to not purchase lithiums. It is a superior energy storage solution.

[leonreno]

Cost is still a reason, but that difference is making it more and more feasible for more people. I don’t fish as much as I like and the difference between 3 $100 batteries and 3 $300 batteries is still significant if you aren’t using them often enough. I believe I have the 27 series 90ah batteries. When these go out I would probably go with a cheaper 36v 55ah battery, still a little more but not bad.

[MTW]

like ive said in my other posts, the average lifespan of a good BMS is 5-7 years. it doesnt matter if its made in taiwan, china or bf egypt, heat is a killer of electronics.

these cranking batteries everyone saying weve sold thousands with no problems. so what will happen when those dual purpose, triple purpose or whatever BMS' start failing? will they handle a load dump? who will be responsible for damages if a load dump toasts the charging/elctrical systems? questions that need to be asked unless you dint care or have disposable cash.

[leonreno]

Can you buy separate BMS? Or can they be easily replaced?

[Mahomee]

Im a average guy.

Have had my lithiums since 2018 when they were a bit more expensive and there werent as many option had relions 3 50ah and 1 100ah start battery originally.

Ive had one lithium issue and it was self inflicted. Charged my 3 tm batteries w a stealth charge on the run and it doesnt get them all 3 equal if you have one go down lower, like using it for a jump start of the start battery. So after 5 years one was much lower than the rest and started giving me issues and then it actually shorted out putting a hole in the case.

Relion sent me another one and then a few weeks later sent me two more because it seemed like I wasnt getting the same output out of the 3 as when new. It turned out in hindsight they needed charged individually, so I have since added a 5x5x5 Noco to do that in addition to the 36v charge on run that charges them.

[Bill Reynolds]

Can you buy separate BMS? Or can they be easily replaced?

Presently, the battery cases are sealed so you are not able to replace the BMS even though they are available for purchase. Obviously the DIY guys do it but most people do not like to tinker that much.

I expect this to be the next development, a battery pack with plugin BMS. This approach creates volume production efficiencies in a battery pack that can be used across various industries. For example you could use a 100 AH battery core in a solar farm with one BMS and in a Bass Boat by plugging in a different BMS. This also applies to the different use requirements of a trolling motor battery versus a starting battery, just change the BMS to meet the use parameters. A natural extension of this are programmable and updatable BMS’s.

We are on the front end of lithium batteries in the boating industry and I expect the battery industry to adapt quickly to meet the particular requirements of the use case.

[61Woody]

Might be wrong but my guess is he didn't try the warranty or he would have posted about that also.

[leonreno]

Presently, the battery cases are sealed so you are not able to replace the BMS even though they are available for purchase. Obviously the DIY guys do it but most people do not like to tinker that much.

I expect this to be the next development, a battery pack with plugin BMS. This approach creates volume production efficiencies in a battery pack that can be used across various industries. For example you could use a 100 AH battery core in a solar farm with one BMS and in a Bass Boat by plugging in a different BMS. This also applies to the different use requirements of a trolling motor battery versus a starting battery, just change the BMS to meet the use parameters. A natural extension of this are programmable and updatable BMS’s.

We are on the front end of lithium batteries in the boating industry and I expect the battery industry to adapt quickly to meet the particular requirements of the use case.

That seems like that would be a way forward, would give you a lot more options. Maybe buy one bms that can control three batteries for a 36 volt bank for a trolling motor, could also include an integrated charging system. I do see that Vitron sells batteries and BMSs separately, and they have BMSs that are made for different applications. That would be the way forward.

[Woody b]

Might be wrong but my guess is he didn't try the warranty or he would have posted about that also.

It would be nice to know. I hate it when someone tells part of the story then disappears.

[davidsa]

rest of the story would help.

that said be-it advances in electronics in our cars, to batteries, to x,y,z when these things break they are not as easy to diagnose or correct. Even an AGM battery I find is more finicky in some situtions then old style lead acid.

[CJ1]

IMHO, this will be the main issue is BMS failures as I have said. We will find out who has the best customer service as these batteries start to age. Cj

[bobcoy]

He has not posted anything since an hour after his post. He should be back at some point