4 sections of hell....according to Saint Thomas Aquinas

[drifter106]

Dr. Taylor Marshall, a former Protestant who has since converted to Catholicism gives a 13 minute dissertation on the various levels of "HELL". Please listen and watch with an open mind and make your own case to its authenticity.

First I would like to share a common pray that has been around for many years. The Apostle's Creed....

This prayer originated around the 5th century and for the most part has been the same for eons. The Protestant Churches have change the word "Catholic" to "Christian".


I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Please note the bold sentence....He descended into hell. For what reason or purpose would Jesus have done that? As Dr. Taylor explains from the workings of St. Aquinis, he never descended into the depths of hell (GEHENNA).

[csurp]

Reminds me of this place. The Serra Pelada gold mine in Brazil.

[digthemup]

These reminds me of the Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri in the 12th century. The purpose of Dante's Divine Comedy was to show people the horrors their souls would go through if they did not obey God's laws and did not live righteously. There is a lot of symbolism in connection with numbers throughout the novel. Dante Alighieri chose the number three because of its significance in Christianity: there is God—the Father, Jesus the Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Another number significant to The Divine Comedy is seven. There are seven deadly sins and seven terraces in Purgatorio, and the seven days God created all things.
Dante uses much symbolism and traditions taught by the church in Rome of his time.

[titanxt]

Drifter106 - Thank you for sharing the video. Informative and thought provoking. One very minor point - not all Christian churches have changed "catholic" to "christian", as the word catholic used in the context of the Creed means "unified." Our church recites the Creed as written above. With that having been said, I am not sure if there is any contextual difference with the use of either word. The portion of the video I take issue with is the man-made, false-teaching of "purgatory." At best it is fallacy; at worst, it makes a bold statement that the saving blood of Jesus Christ was insufficient for the complete forgiveness of sin and blasphemously bestows credit to man for having worked out a portion of his entry into God's eternal presence.

I find it very interesting when religious theories are widely accepted, yet they are built upon small segments of scripture that are void of context or stand in direct opposition to many clearly written passages within the Bible. Purgatory is one of those unbiblical theories. I am also leery of church practices that attach a dollar figure to the unbiblical act.

Paragraph 1030 in the Catholic catechism says, "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned." So, where did this false-teaching come from and why it never taught through God's Word?

Catholic.com cites Revelation 21:27 that says, "Nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven," as proof that man must undergo further purification (payment through suffering) in order to step into God's eternal presence. Unfortunately, they blatantly ignore the remainder of the verse that says, "but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." References to the book of life start in Exodus and carry to the end of the book of Revelation. Jesus is the keeper and author of the book of life as it is Him who provides our salvation through our faithful belief. Psalm 28 and 29 say, "Charge them [the unrighteous] with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your [Jesus'] salvation. May he be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous." Through the fully sufficient and final work of salvation through Jesus Christ, those who believe in Him are added to the book of life. Those who are in the book of life therefore are not part of the "unclean" who will not enter the presence of God in heaven.

Catholic.com goes on to explain how Luke 12:59 supports the false-teaching that Jesus' work on the cross and His blood was not quite good enough to provide for the true forgiveness of sin (often masked by describing it as the repercussion of those sins). Luke 12:59 says, "I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." You will notice the pattern where single lines of scripture are being cherry-picked to introduce complicated false teachings within the catechism. To put verse 59 into context we must look at several chapters proceeding verse 59. Jesus is addressing a large crowd. Jesus is providing warning and encouragements, parables illustrating the foolishness of not putting your faith in Him, being prepared, and speaking of the division that is ahead between believers and non-believers. In Luke 12:57-59 Jesus says, "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? As you going with your adversary to the magistrate, try to hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and the officer will throw you into prison. I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." This parable is clearly the gospel - Satan is the adversary, Jesus is the magistrate who provides reconciliation, God is the judge, and the angels that throw the unrighteous into hell are the officers.

In an attempt to address whether the Catholic church "invented" purgatory, Catholic.com states, "Most professional anti-Catholics - the ones who make their living attacking "Romanism" - seem to place the blame [the invention of purgatory] on Pope Gregory the Great, who reigned from A.D. 590 to 604. But that hardly accounts for the request of Monica, mother of Augustine, who asked her son, in the fourth century, to remember her soul in the Masses. This would make no sense if she thought her soul would not benefit from prayers, as would be the case if she were in hell or in the full glory of heaven." The discussion continued for another paragraph or two without citing a single line of scripture. Are we therefore to take the thoughts of Monica, who through applying her own human logic, thinks it would not make sense to pray for the dead if purgatory was not real? Foolishness. The Bible is very clear, upon the moment of our death, our fate is sealed - whether it is in the hope of Jesus Christ and His resurrection, or not, no more intercession can be made. As an interesting side note, Muslims believe in version of purgatory (Barzakh), Mormons believe in baptism for the dead.

I will close with bringing attention to Luke 15:17-32, the parable of the prodigal son. When the prodigal son acknowledged his sin, repented and returned to his father and asked for forgiveness., the father ran to him with open arms, hugging his son and kissing him. The father placed the best robe on him, placed a ring on his finger, and called for a celebration. The prodigal son was welcomed back and fully restored. No where in the parable did Jesus say, well... after some hellish suffering in purgatory, the son was now worthy to be restored by the father.

[1Holeshot]

If we had " stickies " for this forums I think the post above by titanxt would qualify.

[mram10us]

I question any religion that allows you to pay for sins to be washed away.
1.How could a Christian go to purgatory to pay for sins that Jesus has already paid for?
2.How can someone who rejects Christ somehow pay in purgatory for their own sins then inherit the Kingdom of God?

[digthemup]

I question any religion that allows you to pay for sins to be washed away.
1.How could a Christian go to purgatory to pay for sins that Jesus has already paid for?
2.How can someone who rejects Christ somehow pay in purgatory for their own sins then inherit the Kingdom of God?

Mike,
I guess you would have the answer to your questions if you believed in 'sacred traditions', which makes the blood of Christ one of the ways to get to Heaven.

[fishinFamily]

I question any religion that allows you to pay for sins to be washed away.
1.How could a Christian go to purgatory to pay for sins that Jesus has already paid for?
2.How can someone who rejects Christ somehow pay in purgatory for their own sins then inherit the Kingdom of God?

If you really want to know the answer I will give it a shot but I will admit I’m not the best at this.

There are two types of sins - venial which “injure” our relationship with the Lord but don’t completely sever it; and mortal sins which completely destroy our relationship. Through Reconciliation we can repair our relationship - even after mortal sins. If we die in a state of mortal sin, having completely rejected Christ (your #2) we cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. If we die in a state of venial sin- with our relationship damaged but not destroyed we inherit heaven, but may need to be purified - “washed in the blood of the lamb”. It is always Christ’s death and resurrection that makes that possible. Purgatory is actually a great mercy since nothing that isn’t perfect can enter the presence of God.

[csurp]

It seems fundamentally human to want accountability for our actions. To acquire your heavenly reward by being saved and then being allowed to continue sinning without accountability does not sit well with some folks.

[GPtimes2]

It seems fundamentally human to want accountability for our actions. To acquire your heavenly reward by being saved and then being allowed to continue sinning without accountability does not sit well with some folks.

Well said. Lots of people applying some form of law on themselves. We need to accept that Jesus took care of it ALL. We may pay a price for our sins in our life here, but our salvation is fully paid. What Jesus done was complete. Anything added to that is saying it wasn't.

[1Holeshot]

When we are saved by Grace ( God's unmerited favor ) by Faith ( believing that Jesus is who He said He is ) we are adopted into the family of God. Jesus gives us His imputed righteousness and takes away our sin. God ordained this Sacrifice as it is the only way for us to have righteousness.

[titanxt]

If you really want to know the answer I will give it a shot but I will admit I’m not the best at this.

There are two types of sins - venial which “injure” our relationship with the Lord but don’t completely sever it; and mortal sins which completely destroy our relationship. Through Reconciliation we can repair our relationship - even after mortal sins. If we die in a state of mortal sin, having completely rejected Christ (your #2) we cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. If we die in a state of venial sin- with our relationship damaged but not destroyed we inherit heaven, but may need to be purified - “washed in the blood of the lamb”. It is always Christ’s death and resurrection that makes that possible. Purgatory is actually a great mercy since nothing that isn’t perfect can enter the presence of God.

I do not see purgatory in your explanation above. I think we all can agree the “mortal” sin - refusing Christ as your Lord and Savior - is eternally unforgivable as one has rejected the forgiveness provided through the grace of Jesus. All other sins are “washed by the blood of the Lamb.”

[mram10us]

If you really want to know the answer I will give it a shot but I will admit I’m not the best at this.

There are two types of sins - venial which “injure” our relationship with the Lord but don’t completely sever it; and mortal sins which completely destroy our relationship. Through Reconciliation we can repair our relationship - even after mortal sins. If we die in a state of mortal sin, having completely rejected Christ (your #2) we cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. If we die in a state of venial sin- with our relationship damaged but not destroyed we inherit heaven, but may need to be purified - “washed in the blood of the lamb”. It is always Christ’s death and resurrection that makes that possible. Purgatory is actually a great mercy since nothing that isn’t perfect can enter the presence of God.

Thank you Sir. I went to a catholic high school for a while and also a christian school. I learned the basics but the explanations given by the teachers from traditional texts and not the Bible gave me pause. Forgive the lack of commas in my run on sentences :)

[digthemup]

If you really want to know the answer I will give it a shot but I will admit I’m not the best at this.

There are two types of sins - venial which “injure” our relationship with the Lord but don’t completely sever it; and mortal sins which completely destroy our relationship. Through Reconciliation we can repair our relationship - even after mortal sins. If we die in a state of mortal sin, having completely rejected Christ (your #2) we cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. If we die in a state of venial sin- with our relationship damaged but not destroyed we inherit heaven, but may need to be purified - “washed in the blood of the lamb”. It is always Christ’s death and resurrection that makes that possible. Purgatory is actually a great mercy since nothing that isn’t perfect can enter the presence of God.

Didn't Jesus say that there is only 1 unforgivable sin that being blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
If you die suddenly, yet you have accepted Christ as your Savior and by His blood your sins are forever forgiven, in that moment you stand before Him to confess to the Father (Romans 14:11-12) wouldn't your sins be forgiven?

[titanxt]

Yes.

[1Holeshot]

Didn't Jesus say that there is only 1 unforgivable sin that being blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
If you die suddenly, yet you have accepted Christ as your Savior and by His blood your sins are forever forgiven, in that moment you stand before Him to confess to the Father (Romans 14:11-12) wouldn't your sins be forgiven?

A resounding YES!