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  1. #1
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    Moral relativism? - Looking at you atheists, agnostics and others :)

    The secular education system has been pushing moral relativism for a long time. It is important to always define terms before debating, so here we go...

    Moral relativism - the idea there are no absolute rules to determine whether something is right or wrong

    A few questions for those supporting moral relativism.
    1. how can you disagree with anything in the Bible?
    2. how can you be against child rape or death camps for those deemed expendable?

    Is it possible that thee is ONE moral value out there that is absolute thus universal?
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    #2
    I personally do not disagree with the Bible, but the secular world might say moral relativism is fluid and goes along the lines of what is deemed culturally acceptable. Look at how our laws have changed through the years in accordance to the cultural shifts in our society.

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by titanxt View Post
    I personally do not disagree with the Bible, but the secular world might say moral relativism is fluid and goes along the lines of what is deemed culturally acceptable. Look at how our laws have changed through the years in accordance to the cultural shifts in our society.
    Politics and culturally acceptable could never define morality, since they are base on a self benefiting propositions, hence, they provide no constant as a permanent base.

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    #4
    This discussion has been going on forever if you study much philosophy. Socrates with his Socratic method and Plato's Republic, all these debates and philosophical discussions occurred over 400 years BC. The Bible is just a continuation of the process. In college, I really enjoyed taking the mandatory Philosophy classes and the final paper was to discuss the famous lifeboat theory and how each of the famous philosophers would have acted (all die, or throw some over to save as many as possible and how you would choose).

    Moral relativism and its roots of different cultures having different values and the discussion has been part of Philosophy from the beginning.

    If you get absolute about anything, then you can't help but ask was Truman's decision to drop the atomic bomb the same as gassing Jews and other undesirables, aka MURDER. Murder is murder right? Well, that makes the relativism discussion more rational right?

    Or maybe not. Another good read is about Epictetus and the evolution of Emotional Intelligence.
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire View Post
    This discussion has been going on forever if you study much philosophy. Socrates with his Socratic method and Plato's Republic, all these debates and philosophical discussions occurred over 400 years BC. The Bible is just a continuation of the process. In college, I really enjoyed taking the mandatory Philosophy classes and the final paper was to discuss the famous lifeboat theory and how each of the famous philosophers would have acted (all die, or throw some over to save as many as possible and how you would choose).

    Moral relativism and its roots of different cultures having different values and the discussion has been part of Philosophy from the beginning.

    If you get absolute about anything, then you can't help but ask was Truman's decision to drop the atomic bomb the same as gassing Jews and other undesirables, aka MURDER. Murder is murder right? Well, that makes the relativism discussion more rational right?

    Or maybe not. Another good read is about Epictetus and the evolution of Emotional Intelligence.
    Truman's decision gave the opponent the option to surrender prior to the drop, where death camps the people murdered had no options.

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    Truman's decision gave the opponent the option to surrender prior to the drop, where death camps the people murdered had no options.
    Not the point of course, but if you really study ww2, the decision to drop the atomic bomb is a hot topic, especially the second one. Japan was defeated. I don't want to derail the OP and draw out this discussion, but history is constantly subjected to something called "Presentism".
    Last edited by Squire; 05-25-2023 at 11:41 AM.
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    Politics and culturally acceptable could never define morality, since they are base on a self benefiting propositions, hence, they provide no constant as a permanent base.
    I agree that morality cannot be defined by society/culture because it comes from God; however, man has tried to define it himself since the dawn of creation through laws and cultural normalities.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by titanxt View Post
    I agree that morality cannot be defined by society/culture because it comes from God; however, man has tried to define it himself since the dawn of creation through laws and cultural normalities.
    Which is what God said about the heart of men being continuously evil, hence, the many penalties humanity has endured because of our foolishness.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire View Post
    Not the point of course, but if you really study ww2, the decision to drop the atomic bomb is a hot topic, especially the second one. Japan was defeated. I don't want to derail the OP and draw out this discussion, but history is constantly subjected to something called "Presentism".
    You are in a fight and your opponent is down by your first blow. You tell him to stay down, but he doesn't want to listen, so he instead of surrender he get up again staggering. You know he is defeated, but you should never make such assumptions since it could be to your peril.
    BTW, you will never find the reality of battlefields in any history books, especially in today's world, since everyone is condescending to the politically correct populism.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by titanxt View Post
    Look at how our laws have changed through the years in accordance to the cultural shifts in our society.
    This is the exact point that should be a warning to all. Many societies have accepted pedophilia(see africa and greece). Absolute morals cannot change, thus the majority cannot implement laws/morals based on a majority.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire View Post
    This discussion has been going on forever if you study much philosophy. Socrates with his Socratic method and Plato's Republic, all these debates and philosophical discussions occurred over 400 years BC. The Bible is just a continuation of the process. In college, I really enjoyed taking the mandatory Philosophy classes and the final paper was to discuss the famous lifeboat theory and how each of the famous philosophers would have acted (all die, or throw some over to save as many as possible and how you would choose).

    Moral relativism and its roots of different cultures having different values and the discussion has been part of Philosophy from the beginning.

    If you get absolute about anything, then you can't help but ask was Truman's decision to drop the atomic bomb the same as gassing Jews and other undesirables, aka MURDER. Murder is murder right? Well, that makes the relativism discussion more rational right?

    Or maybe not. Another good read is about Epictetus and the evolution of Emotional Intelligence.
    Can you summarize your stance? Many things have been debated since the beginning of time, but, this is a hot topic now with the lgbt agenda being pushed.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by titanxt View Post
    I agree that morality cannot be defined by society/culture because it comes from God; however, man has tried to define it himself since the dawn of creation through laws and cultural normalities.
    Which, we can agree, led to many failed dynasties :) Romans, greeks and the USA are great examples
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    This is the exact point that should be a warning to all. Many societies have accepted pedophilia(see africa and greece). Absolute morals cannot change, thus the majority cannot implement laws/morals based on a majority.
    Except for maybe death there are no absolutes in life.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    Except for maybe death there are no absolutes in life.
    Can we agree that child rape is absolutely wrong morally?
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    Except for maybe death there are no absolutes in life.
    Don't forget taxes, which is an absolute for the average person.

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    Except for maybe death there are no absolutes in life.
    Sadly, not everyone would agree and that is the crux of the problem.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    Can we agree that child rape is absolutely wrong morally?
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    100%
    We found common ground :) this shows that there is at least one absolute moral. We can find more. If we support relative morals, then child rape can be deemed acceptable.
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    #19
    A small group replying to this thread cannot be taken as the authority on an absolute - whether it is child rape or the best hamburger chain. Moral relativism is decided across a larger segment of society. I would go as far as saying we have allowed large groups of individuals into the United Sates who do not share our core values and the moral relativism line will be moving. Again, sinful man will decide what he believes is moral, though he is not the moral authority. The moral line has definitely shifted since the time this country was founded by those seeking freedom for the practice of their Christian faith.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by titanxt View Post
    A small group replying to this thread cannot be taken as the authority on an absolute - whether it is child rape or the best hamburger chain. Moral relativism is decided across a larger segment of society. I would go as far as saying we have allowed large groups of individuals into the United Sates who do not share our core values and the moral relativism line will be moving. Again, sinful man will decide what he believes is moral, though he is not the moral authority. The moral line has definitely shifted since the time this country was founded by those seeking freedom for the practice of their Christian faith.
    I doubt anyone on our site even knows of someone who considers child rape to be moral, so I might be misunderstanding your first sentence. I do agree with your last sentence
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