The NY Dock/Marina Debate

[jcuts9]

I have been told to leave, had stuff thrown at me, even had a guy jump in the water to try and stop me from fishing a dock.

I have always been under the impression that if a marina was dug out to join a body of water that the landowner owns it, and you cannot fish inside it.

My wife and I purchased a place in Three Mile Bay a few years ago and there were a bunch of us sitting around in the big garage there having a few beverages during the rain on Saturday night. Yes, this is Jefferson County and we watched two boats come into the marina/harbor area and fish that day. One was absolutely fishing for crappie, but we watched them boat a few bass.

The one person made the comment I am surprised the marina owner didn't throw them out. The owner replied that while yes, he did dig it out, he owns the ground under the water, and if someone anchored or actually walked on it that would be his property. He said he has no rights on the navigable water part. He has a sign to not fish by the boats and it seems to work and keep people away.

Anyway, my question is, does anyone actually have the correct answer. Anytime I have asked an agent all they say is that it is a tricky subject.

[Bronzebackpro7]

Not sure on Marinas but docks are free to fish although dock owners OFTEN have a far different opinion. I prefer to fish them weekdays for that very reason

[zaprod71]

I am pretty sure they can limit fishing inside a break wall the marina built. The same may hold true for digging out a "lagoon/bay" and putting the marina inside it.

[ECobb91]

I’ve always thought that anything that’s a manmade marina is off limits as the natural shoreline has been altered. The natural shoreline is the boundary, and once you go inside your technically within their property limits. I’ve fished the channels and marinas of Sandy and never had an issue. If there’s a sign that says private or no fishing I don’t push my luck.

I can say, I’ve never had anyone yell or complain about me fishing a marina or dock. If someone asks me to leave I don’t pull the “it’s my right as a fisherman” card. I just say sorry to bother and put the motor on high. If I see an owner near their dock I won’t even fish it unless they say come on over.

[KandKKustomz]

if it was dug out it can not be legally fished in NY without permission.

[Fireball]

if it was dug out it can not be legally fished in NY without permission.

Nope, as long as you don’t anchor or tie up you can fish docks, marinas and even canals. Had property owners on a canal that was privately dug where several houses were built on Chautauqua Lake. DEC officer came out to check me out and said I was good as long as I didn’t anchor or tie up. Happened 2 times to me. The property owners own the land but not the water or fish.

[pajoe329]

It's same way in Pa , go near a dock and some owners start yelling at you get going , go couple docks away and they say not far enough , and some are nice and ask how your doing would you like a drink or a hot dog .

[digthemup]

Most of my fishing is done up at the St Lawrence so plenty of water to fish, however, if I am pitching docks, and I notice a "don't fish sign", I avoid it just for the sake of possibly creating bad relations for the fishing population at large. I try to be respectful of docks with boats in them so that I don't come too close to them, and if I see a person on the dock or land, I ask if it is OK to fish the dock or boathouse.

Arguments, whether you are in the right or not, creates bad blood for all of us, so be kind whenever possible.

[MacIntosh]

New york is pretty clear. Fishing a private dock on a public waterway is 100% fair game. A marina in a navigable waterway is also fair game. However, a marina that was excavated and artificially connected to a public waterway is not considered “navigable in fact” because it was not navigable in its natural state, so it can be posted as if it were on land.
Edit: dont know about the specific examples above, only explanation I can think of is that some excavated waterways were considered navigable before they were dug-out to allow larger vessels in them or deepen them, so even though they are “artificial” they might still be considered navigable in fact for the purpose of public access.

[MacIntosh]

https://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/74771.html

[jcuts9]

as it reads, it looks like what the owner of the land I have a place at said. You cannot anchor or walk on the water bottom, but if the boat floats they have no say. It also comes down to what is navitable waters

[MacIntosh]

as it reads, it looks like what the owner of the land I have a place at said. You cannot anchor or walk on the water bottom, but if the boat floats they have no say. It also comes down to what is navitable waters

Exactly, it 100% comes down to the legal definition of what is and isnt a navigable waterway. The case above applies to some navigable waterways. A completely manufactured marina—ie there was no water there at all until someone dug a hole and connected it to the lake—can be posted against even floating on it because it is not considered a natural part of a navigable waterway, legally in NY that situation is viewed as if it were dry land.
For an example of that pull up google maps and look at treadwell bay marina just north of plattsburg on lake Champlain. It is completely manufactured. Look at navionics mapping software for the same spot and it wont even show water there, because legally its not part of the lake. Consequently, this marina is legally posted against both fishing and tresspass.

[MacIntosh]

And if this seems complicated, wait’ll we get into river access in the West!

[ECobb91]

Exactly, it 100% comes down to the legal definition of what is and isnt a navigable waterway. The case above applies to some navigable waterways. A completely manufactured marina—ie there was no water there at all until someone dug a hole and connected it to the lake—can be posted against even floating on it because it is not considered a natural part of a navigable waterway, legally in NY that situation is viewed as if it were dry land.
For an example of that pull up google maps and look at treadwell bay marina just north of plattsburg on lake Champlain. It is completely manufactured. Look at navionics mapping software for the same spot and it wont even show water there, because legally its not part of the lake. Consequently, this marina is legally posted against both fishing and tresspass.

exactly. It’s fairly simple honestly and people make it way more complicated than it needs to be just because they want to fish marinas.

Question 1: Was the natural shoreline manually excavated such that it expanded the water into a private parcel that would’ve naturally been dry land? If so then it’s legally off limits to fish, and even float into, because it’s not part of the natural “navigable” waterway. you’re technically trespassing within the reputed owner(s) property boundary.

Question 2: Does the marina maintain existing shoreline and did not require physical excavation to expand the water limits into what would’ve been dry land within a private parcel? If yes, then it’s legal to fish since you are within the natural shoreline.

the only time I have ever heard that you can “float” over and fish private water is for rivers that are publicly accessible because there’s no physical way navigate around it without going through the private section. In that scenario, you can’t anchor or even push off the stream bed with an oar because the stream bed is private.

in lakes, you have to make a concerted effort to cross into a private parcel.

[Chizler62]

Exactly, it 100% comes down to the legal definition of what is and isnt a navigable waterway. The case above applies to some navigable waterways. A completely manufactured marina—ie there was no water there at all until someone dug a hole and connected it to the lake—can be posted against even floating on it because it is not considered a natural part of a navigable waterway, legally in NY that situation is viewed as if it were dry land.
For an example of that pull up google maps and look at treadwell bay marina just north of plattsburg on lake Champlain. It is completely manufactured. Look at navionics mapping software for the same spot and it wont even show water there, because legally its not part of the lake. Consequently, this marina is legally posted against both fishing and tresspass.

this is 100%
an example I just had a discussion about today was Mohawk Harbor "Rivers Casino" Marina. Dug on private land with no outlet it becomes owners rules.