Starving for fuel

[Striperaddict]

Still chasing this issues of my 04 DI 200 sputtering and smoking at idle after a run. When it does this if I pump the primer ball it smoothes out and idles fine sometimes for as long as I need but most times only for a cpl minutes at most then I need to pump ball again. But over the last month Im having issues even getting ball to pump fuel it stays empty. I just replaced fuel line from tank to motor with new evinrude ball and also found a crack in the lift pump and replaced it also. Just did a test on muffs and it is still running out of fuel at idle and sputtering/smoking and ball isnt pumping.
Im looking to remove the pickup from tank to inspect or replace if need be. Im just worried about screwing it up. Do I need to just uncsrew the nut at base of the 90° and lift out the pickup tube? Also any recomendations on new tube and screen?
Motor is on an 04 Champion 188 elite
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated
Ive got a few pick of top of fuel tank and cracked lift pump also

[Bighare2]

words of caution first. Maybe plan for spare parts first.
The nut is a ‘’jam nut’. Once loose you unscrew the tube. But those nuts are aluminum, can be corroded, and the flats can round over easily with a poor fitting wrench. I cannot recommend an adjustable wrench. If the pickup tube is cracked, bottom is plugged or otherwise broken, this should be obvious.

when you remove the fuel line it is best to make a short cut in the hose to help the hose loosen from the fitting. The fitting is typically an anti-siphon valve and is made from aluminum. Meaning it is a check valve and spring that can get clogged with trash. Removing the fitting from the pickup can be a real PIA. 50/50 chance for the fitting to break off.

hopefully you will get lucky. The pictures do not show visible corrosion/stuckness.

[Striperaddict]

Thanks Bighare
I went and got a brand new external tank, hose and primer ball and ran the motor and had the same result. Being on the muff out of the water when she starts running bad the exhaust gets louder and sounds like an old ford with bad exhaust leaks if that makes sense. I pumped ball and it straightened out again but only for 15 seconds or so then I shut it down.
I read an older thread of the fuel boiling out of the evap canister but Im only getting 141° max with an infared gun aimed at the heads. Brand new water pump kit and 25-30psi at wot so I dont think shes getting hot.
Im struggling here. Hahaha
I see I didnt put model and serial #s
Model- E200FPLSRB
SER# 05041676

[jcddllc]

Im curious what you find out on this issue. Ive been dealing with the same thing on my 04 150.

[Bighare2]

If the vapor separator was boiling over the crankcase would flood.
does the engine continue to run if you continue to pump the bulb. It sure sounds like a low pressure pump issue. There may be a plugged filter in one on the fuel lines in the vapor separator. The high pressure pump cannot do much without a fuel supply I am not the expert in the gory details there. Hopefully some others more experienced there will chime in.
what service manual are you using?

[Striperaddict]

Yes if I pump the ball it starts running perfect again. Ive got the good evinrude manual and ev diags but honestly I see nothing on diags to help. I get no warning lights or codes. I replaced the low pressure pump but with a "good" used one but today found a new one on boats.net and ordered it. All fuel line replaced from tank to lift pump wich is what had me thinking pickup tube but the external tank kinda proved that isnt the issue. I also found and cleaned the cone filter in the vst but it was very clean also
Heres a pic of my manual

[Bighare2]

That manual works.

my gues is a problem still exists within the supply pump. Hoses mixed up, vacuum leak to the crankcase. Clearly the primer bulb is replacing the function/operation of the lift pump.

[Striperaddict]

I didnt think of the fittings or pulse hoses maybe leaking. Im 100% confident I put it back together with hoses in correct places.
I really appreciate your advice and knowledge Bighare

[Striperaddict]

So I removed the primer bulb and plugging the inlet side and pumping it. It creates suction but bleeds off pretty quickly. Im thinking the primer bulb is no good. It is new within the last few months but I think it should be replaced again or is this normal?

[Bighare2]

The bulb is not intended to hold pressure once the engine runs. Design intent is to push fuel to and through the fuel pump when squeezed and then draw fuel from the tank when the bulb is released. As soon as the main fuel pump takes over the bulb will depressurize. Fuel is supposed to flow freely through the bulb to the engine
Bulbs have been know to restrict fuel flow.

[Striperaddict]

Well I decided to re-route the fuel line from tank to bulb to get the bulb vertical rather than horizontal as it had been since I bought the boat. Got it all done and pumped bulb to fill the pump and vst and ran her again on the muffs.
After bout 8 mins at idle she started running bad again pumped ball 3 times and smoothed out for another 10 mins stumbled again this time I did nothing and it corrected itself in 10-15 seconds and ran fine for another 12-15 minutes. Im hoping it was just a little air trapped in the system after removing all the fuel lines and lift pump.
Im going out to try again shortly and if all is well a lake test tomorrow morning
Wish me luck

[Striperaddict]

So when I fired it up again I didnt pump the bulb. It started up running rough then revved to about 2000 rpm and smokin like a train! It came back down very fast but still running bad so I pumped the bulb and it took a few seconds but it ran smoothe as butter for 10 mins and I shut her down for the night.
Im going to fire it up again in the morning but pump the bulb first and see what happens

Thats the first time its revved like that on initial startup and it scared the hell out of me! Any ideas why its now doing that? Maybe Ive got leaky injectors or something? Im obviously learning as I go so any help from you folks is very needed and appreciated
Thank you

[bosco]

Have you pulled the sender/pickup/filter in the tank?

[Striperaddict]

Have you pulled the sender/pickup/filter in the tank?

No I didnt mess with the fuel pickup since it was doing the same on an external tank and fuel lines.

But after the new lift pump and fuel lines from tank to engine and letting it idle it dosent seem to be running out of fuel so Im going to go run it tomorrow and see how it goes.
Will report back results this weekend

[Striperaddict]

So I got out and ran it last weekend and had zero issues. I didnt get to run it alot being the holiday but made some runs and she ran and idled great and sounded alot better as well. Fingers crossed it stays like that for a long time to come.
Im pretty confident the small crack in the lift pump was the culprit all along just took me forever to find it.

Thank you to everyone for the help and advice on the few threads I have made regarding this issue

[Striperaddict]

Well my problem is back again. Have not been able to get out much since I thought I fixed my issue. I want to do the fuel pressure tests on both high and low pressure. The return line looks to have what should be the test port but it dose not look like there are threads or any way to attatch a gauge so does that mean Im going to have to cut the return line and splice in the gauge? That fuel line is much more rigid than the regular rubber hose Im used to.

My manual says to test from outlet of fuel pump to manifold if no pressure relief valve but I would have to cut that rigid fuel line if I go that way as well.

So Im confused what hose to do the test on. Any suggestions? I got a pic of where the relief port should be I think. Will attatch

[DaleH]

You don't have the OEM manual? The tests are very specific and detailed in them ...

In regards to removing fuel pickups off tanks, I find that 2 box wrenches set 180-degrees apart works best! Also, mix 50:50 mix of ATF (Auto Trans Fluid) & Acetone in a small container and weep onto the threads with a paint brush ... it is THE best penetrating fluid for threads, much better than Kroil or PB Blaster!

[Striperaddict]

You don't have the OEM manual? The tests are very specific and detailed in them ...

In regards to removing fuel pickups off tanks, I find that 2 box wrenches set 180-degrees apart works best! Also, mix 50:50 mix of ATF (Auto Trans Fluid) & Acetone in a small container and weep onto the threads with a paint brush ... it is THE best penetrating fluid for threads, much better than Kroil or PB Blaster!

Yes Ive got the manual. Didnt have the test adapters but found them on marine engine.com this morning and ordered. Hopefully have time this weekend to do the tests. Thank you for the advise on the fuel pickup

[Striperaddict]

Finally success! Turns out my diagnosis was all wrong. Motor was not starving for fuel it was actually getting to much fuel via the vent from the VST. The float is broken and allowing fuel to be pushed into the intake. I talked to an evinrude mechanic from florida and he told me to run it with that hose off and check for fuel and sure enough it was pouring fuel into the motor. I ended up buying an aftermarket vst and pump from him on ebay and she ran perfect all day yesterday.
I debated buying a used authentic vst but didnt want to just use a used part with no history on it. This mechanic actually modified the mounting holes to slide over the studs with the rubber grommets just like the original part does. All the fittings are correct and he also gives a 1 year warranty on the vst and pump. I know original parts are best but I took the chance on this one and after one day without problems Im happy and hope to be for years to come.

Thanks again to you all for your help and sugestions

[ChampioNman]

Thanks for the update, we usually don't get any.