Mary the New Ark

[digthemup]

I have heard some claims being made about Mary, the mother of our Lord and of His brothers, whom we have their books as part of our NT, but this one is worth writing about. According to this Very Reverend, Mary is the new Ark of the New Covent, and it can be proven by the comparisons made such as, John the baptizer leaping in his mother womb when Mary visited Elizabeth as David did before the Ark. The Ark contained the manna and Mary carried in her womb Jesus Christ, the bread of life.

I could go on with the comparisons, but I will spare everyone the nausea from such outlandish comparison trying to prove something that it is NOT.
I have the very high respect for Mary as the dear mother of our Lord Christ, who had to endure the unimaginable suffering of watching Him be crucified and die right before her eyes, and all the yrs of caring for Him from childhood with the many things pointing to His Passion at the Cross. However, to make such comparison between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant, based on personal opinions without stating such, it is foolish and unfounded.
Please share your opinions regardless of your position.
In Christ our Savior's love
Frank

[1Holeshot]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of Jesus but is not Divine or a part of the Trinity.

Frank I respect Mary's role which God had for her but do not pray to her or ask her to intercede on my behalf. Because I can pray directly to Jesus no go between is necessary.

[digthemup]

Holeshot
thank you for sharing your opinion on the matter.

[rds_nc]

Wasn’t that the premise of one of Dan Brown’s books?

[digthemup]

Wasn’t that the premise of one of Dan Brown’s books?

I believe that he writes fiction books, which are the last thing I would use my time for.

BTW, I think you are thinking about the wrong Mary.

[drifter106]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of Jesus but is not Divine or a part of the Trinity.

Frank I respect Mary's role which God had for her but do not pray to her or ask her to intercede on my behalf. Because I can pray directly to Jesus no go between is necessary.

Totally agree with your first statement Holeshot. Never was and never will be Divine or part of the Trinity. BUT.....THE BVM was chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus. Quit an honor to say the least. She HAD to be of a certain "quality"....that in being since she was to nurture the child Jesus in her womb, free from original sin. She was and is.

Now, I would like to bring forth a question for those interested.....at Cana, when Christ made known his first miracle. What was the conversation between Mary and Jesus when they found out that the wine was almost gone?

I will wait for some replies so that we can have further discussion....looking for responses between Jesus and his mother and what actions followed their discussions.

[digthemup]

John,
Here is your answer in John 2:1-5
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever He saith unto you, do it.

Now, if you are attempting to use the approach that Mary is our channel to Christ, I do not see it, so please explain it to me like you were talking to a 5 yr old.
Thank you for your explanation.
Frank

[drifter106]

Should be obvious that in their conversation Jesus was telling his mother that it wasn't time for him to invoke any type of supernatural event. But....in the end she said to do whatever he tells you to do. This is one example of where Jesus will do whatever his mother asks of him. By the same token, Mary, knowing the will of Jesus, will not ask of him anything that would go against his will.

This is but one reason why many people ask Mary to intercede for them. This is something that, in God's will, ask people to do.

Insofar as the interceding goes....have you or anybody prayed for someone in need? Are you interceding for that person? Asking Jesus to come to the aide of an individual? Taking it one step further with my own personal experience....when I had cancer I did ask The BVM for help. In the end I went through something that in my mind was a miracle. She is the spiritual mother for EVERYONE....many people chose to ignore that. Depending on your spiritual state "of mind" do you think Jesus answers everyone's prayers? Myself, I prefer to have The BVM go to bat for me as well as praying (especially The Divine Mercy prayer) to Jesus.

Furthermore....not really on the "up and up" with the ark thing. Maybe an explanation would help clear the air.

One more thing...Jesus did not have any "blood brothers or sisters". For those that believe that to be true I suggest you find out more about their syntax as it pertains to relationships among the Jewish people.

[digthemup]

John,
This clearly states to the servants to do what Jesus says, "Whatsoever He saith unto you, do it.", and in no way does it say because I told him to do it.
If you want to put the concept of asking for prayer during a true need in our lives or someone we dearly care for, and you wish to include Mary, I have no issue with the matter, and to clarify why we asked for prayers, I look at in a duality, "for that which you ask in my name the Father will give onto thee", the parable of the unrighteous judge, and when two or three of you are gathered there I am in the midst.
Now, just like you, that which I have stated is based on my opinion of my studying Scripture, and I am open to learn from others, as long as it is based on Scripture.

[1Holeshot]

John, please do not think that I am trying to disparage Mary by my posts and beliefs.

I believe that all descendants of Adam and Eve are born with a sin nature and must be " saved " i.e. redeemed by Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. That would include Mary.

I guess what I am trying to convey is that when we are born again we have direct access to Jesus.

Yes, I believe Mary was chosen before she was conceived in her mothers womb to be the virgin mother of Jesus Christ.

I do not believe that I would have received Eternal Life by confessing my sins, repenting, and asking forgiveness from Mary or any of the saints .

John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

[drifter106]

John, please do not think that I am trying to disparage Mary by my posts and beliefs.

I believe that all descendants of Adam and Eve are born with a sin nature and must be " saved " i.e. redeemed by Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. That would include Mary.

I guess what I am trying to convey is that when we are born again we have direct access to Jesus.

Yes, I believe Mary was chosen before she was conceived in her mothers womb to be the virgin mother of Jesus Christ.

I do not believe that I would have received Eternal Life by confessing my sins, repenting, and asking forgiveness from Mary or any of the saints .

John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

Just to be clear....I have never insinuated that mankind confesses their sins, repents or asks for forgiveness from Mary or any other saints. Thats what Jesus is all about. He is the only one that can provide each individual forgiveness.

[1Holeshot]

Thank you for the clarification John.

Perhaps you can help me understand people confessing their sins to a priest if you agree that Jesus is the only one who can forgive them.

I do not ask this question to be argumentative just do not get it since Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross.

[digthemup]

Just to be clear..... That's what Jesus is all about. He is the only one that can provide each individual forgiveness.

Boooommmmmm, was that a mike drop or what? Amen

[drifter106]

Thank you for the clarification John.

Perhaps you can help me understand people confessing their sins to a priest if you agree that Jesus is the only one who can forgive them.

I do not ask this question to be argumentative just do not get it since Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross.

It has to do with tradition...tradition stemming from the apostles. Catholics confess our sins to a priest and receive God's forgiveness and absolution. BECAUSE GOD WANTED IT THIS WAY. God willed that His pardon and mercy pass through His Son, Jesus Christ, who acts IN the priest, and hence, instituted the Sacrament of Penance (confession) upon giving His Apostles the power and authority to forgive sins or retain them.

Now as good Protestants....you're going to ask "where is that in the Bible"......right?

Taken from John 20 21-23

“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF YOU FORGIVE THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE FORGIVEN; IF YOU RETAIN THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE RETAINED.”

[1Holeshot]

It has to do with tradition...tradition stemming from the apostles. Catholics confess our sins to a priest and receive God's forgiveness and absolution. BECAUSE GOD WANTED IT THIS WAY. God willed that His pardon and mercy pass through His Son, Jesus Christ, who acts IN the priest, and hence, instituted the Sacrament of Penance (confession) upon giving His Apostles the power and authority to forgive sins or retain them.
Now as good Protestants....you're going to ask "where is that in the Bible"......right?

Taken from John 20 21-23

“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF YOU FORGIVE THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE FORGIVEN; IF YOU RETAIN THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE RETAINED.”

When I accepted Christ, I received the Holy Spirit. If I forgive the sins of anyone who " sinned" against me that is a personal decision but they would still need to confess and repent to our Savior Jesus. What I would do is turn the other cheek. If I would not forgive them that would be on me. In other words we cannot leave Jesus out of the act of forgiveness.

[Robby Moser]

If I would not forgive them that would be on me.

"Bearing with one another,and forgiving one another,if anyone has a complaint against another,just as Jesus forgave you,so you also must do."

Colossians 3:13

[1Holeshot]

Absolutely.

[digthemup]

John,
You are basing your reason for confessing to a priest on John 20: 21-23
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

I believe that you are basing your decision on the tradition that the catholic church has carried on for many yrs, since they imposed such on the believe that priest are the direct messengers of Christ, which I believe such a thing was done for the sole purpose of controlling the flock as they also did with the Latin mass and bibles.
If priest are the descended of Peter and the apostles, should they be allowed to continue in the same manner they did by raising them a family as they so originally did, yet that was removed from them.
This is what Jesus instructed in Matthew 6:5-7 "5 And when thou prays, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.6 But thou, when thou prays, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which sees in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

I believe that if you read the entire chapter, you will find more clarification on praying and confession, which I have found in my trust in God and Christ the last in the line of Melchizedek.