Ultrex/Helix question

[H2Power]

I have an early version of the Ultrex, purchased in January 2018. I also have an old HB958 on the bow which has served me well but over the last several years I have interference when running the TM. Because I also have Livescope I haven't tried to chase down the issue. I'm considering an upgrade to a Helix with chirp.

How can I determine if the Ultrex transducer is chirp compatible?

What steps can I take to ensure the interference from the TM is eliminated when using either my old unit or with a new Helix graph? Because the unit is mounted on the bow I don't see any way to get the graph wiring far from the TM wires. The graph is powered by a Seaclear harness connected to starter battery.

Thanks for any help!

[CatFan]

Have you checked the fuse in the head of the TM?

[H2Power]

No, I was not aware there was a fuse in the head. TM is functioning. Can you give me more information related to your question?

[CatFan]

No, I was not aware there was a fuse in the head. TM is functioning. Can you give me more information related to your question?

There is a fuse in the head for the noise reduction circuit in the TM. It gets blown when there are connections between the TM batteries and cranking/electronics battery.

[H2Power]

Thank you sir! Yes indeed, the fuse was blown. What a dumb a** I've been waiting so long to take care of it. Hopefully that will eliminate the interference.

My HB959 may suffice, but if I wanted to upgrade to a Helix with chirp, will the built in Ultrex transducer work?

Thanks

[CatFan]

Thank you sir! Yes indeed, the fuse was blown. What a dumb a** I've been waiting so long to take care of it. Hopefully that will eliminate the interference.

My HB959 may suffice, but if I wanted to upgrade to a Helix with chirp, will the built in Ultrex transducer work?

Thanks

If the fuse blew once, there might be a wiring "conflict" Things like add-on noise reduction ground connections, jump start systems, or some charge-on-the-run chargers can cause the fuse to blow.

[H2Power]

If the fuse blew once, there might be a wiring "conflict" Things like add-on noise reduction ground connections, jump start systems, or some charge-on-the-run chargers can cause the fuse to blow.

Yeah, that's always the question, why did it blow. I have none of the above add on items you mentioned other than the jump start connection Ranger provides and I have only used it once quite recently. I did however find the black wire inside the head had a section with the insulation worn through to bare wire. I wrapped it in electrical tape and I'll see what happens. There is plenty of opening around the wires going into the head for water to get into the head, especially if you stuff one. They have a bunch of drain holes in the bottom of the housing for water to drain when the TM is in the down position. I'm surprised the head is not sealed.

[CatFan]

Yeah, that's always the question, why did it blow. I have none of the above add on items you mentioned other than the jump start connection Ranger provides and I have only used it once quite recently. I did however find the black wire inside the head had a section with the insulation worn through to bare wire. I wrapped it in electrical tape and I'll see what happens. There is plenty of opening around the wires going into the head for water to get into the head, especially if you stuff one. They have a bunch of drain holes in the bottom of the housing for water to drain when the TM is in the down position. I'm surprised the head is not sealed.

Your Ranger jump start will do it. Maybe without even using it. Keep an eye on it and see how it behaves.

[H2Power]

Thanks CatFan. Is there a way to determine if it is the jump start feature or to otherwise isolate it?

[ezfishn]

The US2 transducer in the TM is 83/200khz and can be used in CHIRP mode with a compatible unit and adapter cable:

Universal Sonar 2 | Minn Kota (johnsonoutdoors.com)

[XingEyeballs]

The transducer built in is not chirp compatible. If I remember correctly it’s a straight 83/200 if it’s the older model with the round puck in the nose cone.

[CatFan]

Thanks CatFan. Is there a way to determine if it is the jump start feature or to otherwise isolate it?

Not really. Some people end up disconnecting the jump start function and just coiling the wires up where they can be reattached fairly easily.

[Wayne P.]

The transducer built in is not chirp compatible. If I remember correctly it’s a straight 83/200 if it’s the older model with the round puck in the nose cone.

The units will CHIRP 83/200 kHz at 75-95 kHz/175-225 kHz and give you cheap CHIRP.
The first generation Helix 12's and all the second generation Helix units do that. The first generation SOLIX units do it also.

Real CHIRP is done with a Low-Q CHIRP rated piezo like the HW CHIRP piezo is.

[H2Power]

Wayne, thanks for the images. I have questions. So you are showing side by side images of chirp sonar at two different frequencies.

At first I was thinking the lower frequency image in the lower screen was showing more detail because I see more fish marks. But lower frequency shows less detail than higher frequency, so is the reason more fish marks are visible in the bottom screen shot because of the larger cone angle covering a wider area thus marking more fish?

The images show a combination of raw fish marks and fish id images. I have not seen this before, so new to me. What is the benefit of having images coming back as fish id?

I'm not sure which sonar transducer is in my Ultrex. Is it universal sonar or universal sonar 2? Are they both capable of transmitting the chirp frequencies?

Bottom line, I'm still not clear on whether I would benefit from upgrading to a chirp unit given I have an older Ultrex/transducer.

Thanks to all for the help!

[Wayne P.]

Wayne, thanks for the images. I have questions. So you are showing side by side images of chirp sonar at two different frequencies.

At first I was thinking the lower frequency image in the lower screen was showing more detail because I see more fish marks. But lower frequency shows less detail than higher frequency, so is the reason more fish marks are visible in the bottom screen shot because of the larger cone angle covering a wider area thus marking more fish?

The images show a combination of raw fish marks and fish id images. I have not seen this before, so new to me. What is the benefit of having images coming back as fish id?

I'm not sure which sonar transducer is in my Ultrex. Is it universal sonar or universal sonar 2? Are they both capable of transmitting the chirp frequencies?

Bottom line, I'm still not clear on whether I would benefit from upgrading to a chirp unit given I have an older Ultrex/transducer.

Thanks to all for the help!

83 kHz has three times the spec coverage as 200 kHz==60 degrees/20 degrees. It's not more detail, just more coverage. Fish arches are a result of TIME and DISTANCE within the sonar pulses==more TIME with 83 kHz=longer arches.
Dual Beam units have an ID color for 83 kHz and another ID color for 200 kHz.
Dual Spectrum units just have one frequency band=one color.

When FishID is turned on, it filters the sonar returns based on air bladder sizes. A fish has to be large enough to meet the criteria to be assigned one of the three size symbols. There are two sets of symbols= one for fresh water and one for salt water.
ANYTHING in the water column can be represented as an arch.

[H2Power]

Not really. Some people end up disconnecting the jump start function and just coiling the wires up where they can be reattached fairly easily.

CatFan, after changing the fuse, graph had clear picture with TM running for approximately a day and one half before the interference started again, so I am assuming the fuse blew again. I'm attaching a schematic of the battery and jump circuit in my boat. By "disconnecting the jump start function" do you mean to disconnect the wire between the negative terminals of troll battery 3 and the crank battery? That wire should be the only "live" connection between the two power sources.

The wire from troll battery 3 positive terminal and the terminal labeled batt 2 on the jump switch should be a dead end if the switch is in the off position or the on/run position, however I can easily disconnect it from the troll battery 3 positive terminal as well.

[CatFan]

CatFan, after changing the fuse, graph had clear picture with TM running for approximately a day and one half before the interference started again, so I am assuming the fuse blew again. I'm attaching a schematic of the battery and jump circuit in my boat. By "disconnecting the jump start function" do you mean to disconnect the wire between the negative terminals of troll battery 3 and the crank battery? That wire should be the only "live" connection between the two power sources.

The wire from troll battery 3 positive terminal and the terminal labeled batt 2 on the jump switch should be a dead end if the switch is in the off position or the on/run position, however I can easily disconnect it from the troll battery 3 positive terminal as well.

I would remove that negative wire. Some people seem to get away with it, but others experience what you are.