Trying to Answer Lithium Questions I Had Before My Purchase

[GabeJ]

Answers to your lithium questions…maybe.

Hi, BBCBOARDSmembers. I wanted to contribute to the discussion and to answer some questions I couldn’t find answers to, so I’m going to try to do that here, if anyone is interested. I wanted to know what battery setup to get for my boat and for my kind of fishing. Seemed like there weren't a lot of clear posts for river fishing or whatever.

I'll happily answer any questions I can, as I go.

Pertinent Information
Boat: 1996 Skeeter ZX185c

Motor: 175 Yamaha 2 stroke

Trolling motor: Lowrance Ghost

Loadout: not tons of gear 8 rods, a fair amount of tackle. One or two people. Both of us are about 175lbs. I never use the livewells. Gas tank is usually halfway full.

Water: Columbia River. Directly below a large dam. Tons of wind. Variable current, but usually pretty strong.

Electronics: 2 Lowrance HDS Carbon 9s, Lowrance Point 1.

Batteries: One 36v 40ah trolling motor battery. One 12v 120ah cranking battery.

Charging: Impulse Lithium charge on the run.

Before, I just had 3 27 series walmart batteries. I would run out of juice on a long day of fishing. My two HDS 9's ran my cranking battery down, too. I rarely use the big motor, so, yeah...The 24v Ghost worked well except in the spring when they dump water over the dam. I was overpowered in some tremendous current last year. The boat couldn't hold its position even on max.

Reason for choosing Impulse:
I did a TON of research. I spent extra money over Amazon lithium because I needed bluetooth to help me focus on fishing and not stressing over charge. I also wanted a battery with a fantastic warranty. Lastly, I wanted cylindrical batteries vs prismatic. (Research this if you're serious about spending thousands of dollars.)

I chose Impulse Lithium, after speaking with Bill. The BBC discount made a huge difference. It was still a lot of money. (All my electronics savings.) So I ended up with the one “small” 36v battery and the powerful cranking battery. I was hoping the charge-on-the-run would make up the difference.

Also, I believe Impulse’s warranty is second-to-none.

My next post will provide some installation details:

My boat:
IMG_1579.jpg

[GabeJ]

Installation of a 36v trolling motor battery and 12v cranking battery and a charge on the run system and a charger.

Batteries were well-packaged, protected, organized. Each came in its own box. Each battery weighs 32 pounds I think.

Weight is a big deal. I’m not super old and I’m pretty fit, but years of being a baseball pitcher has been hell on my shoulders. Lifting batteries in the back of my boat results in a good week of pain. I pulled three class 27 batteries out of the boat. 154 lbs and replaced them with 4 batteries worth of lithium weighing in at 64 lbs.

I was worried about documentation for my order. I found no manuals for the charger nor the charge-on-the-run system. I was afraid installation would be difficult. I do all the work on my boat, all the installs of graphs and nmea and trolling motor, but I’m slow at it and not confident.

So I was hoping to study install guides and stuff before the batteries arrived. There was nothing to study and I was worried. Good news: I had nothing to worry about. There is a guide that gives you all you need to know. Follow the picture, everything works as it should.

Side note: I needed a battery mount terminal bus for the cranking motor. I have 5 items that need to be connected to the positive terminal and 5 for the negative. It was too much to stack, so I had to order a terminal bus. I spent an hour before ordering it fighting with all those cables until my hands completely cramped. Order a battery mount terminal bus to save yourself a bunch of trouble.

The batteries were both the same dimension and weight. They fit in the trays already in the boat for 27-29 series batteries.

Everything was awesomely easy and worked as it should, but I know Bill would have happily answered any questions if I had any.

The second the batteries arrived, I connected my phone to them. The first night, I watched on my phone in my bed upstairs as the batteries charged in the basement. I will never have non-bluetooth batteries again. So much peace of mind.

PXL_20230310_012946641.jpg
(Battery mount terminal bus)

Next post I’ll address my first trip on the river.

[Bjxds]

Following with interest

[Jasonrs]

Great write up! Following as well

[rnorman35]

Not much of a comparison going from 24 volt lead to 36 volt lithium.

[GabeJ]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, rnorman35. Do you mean there isn't much of a comparison between the two, that they are quite different? Or are you saying I didn't write enough about the difference? I'm happy to go in-depth a little more, if it's the latter.

Not much of a comparison going from 24 volt lead to 36 volt lithium.

[Topwater All Day]

Appreciate the detail in your posts for sure - I had a lot of the same questions and did tons of research before I went with the same setup as you except in the 24v version. I've been really happy with how easy everything was to install and connect as well as the performance. I have not gotten either battery below 60% while fishing. Looking forward to your follow up posts!

[GabeJ]

Thank you, Rob! The 24v vs 36v is a big one. Honestly, outside of a couple days in the spring when conditions are basically at flood-level, I don't think a 19ft boat needs the 36v oomph. I think I will appreciate how efficient it is, since I have "only" 40ah of power, but I honestly can hardly tell the difference. It's not at all night-and-day.

In fact, if I had the option of say 70ah at 24v vs 40ah at 36v for the same price, I'd go 24v. When the Columbia River is at flood-level currents, I probably shouldn't really spend a lot of time on the water anyway. It's chocolate milk brown with tons of debris. Not ideal.

[GabeJ]

Thank you, Jasonrs. I always figure my fishing conditions are similar to those on the great lakes. Hope my experience helps you in some way.

[GabeJ]

Feel free to ask any questions for which you seek answers. I'll do my best to answer them.

[GabeJ]

Maiden voyage!

Okay, so, I got out today (This is yesterday at the time I am posting this). They aren’t pushing much water through the dam yet, so current was not super strong. I ran the big motor at idle for a half mile while I messed with my electronics. Then I turned it off and fished with my trolling motor.

First, 24v vs 36v Ghost. I wasn’t blown away by the difference. 50% on 24v feels like 40% on 36v. But max power definitely feels clearly more powerful. I should be able to stay in place when the Army Corps of Engineers decides to open the floodgates. The bigger benefit of the 36v is efficiency. I was drawing less power from my battery by using the motor as 36v. On to the batteries.

I loved seeing the charge the whole time I was on the boat. Often, before I leave my house, I am convinced that my batteries aren’t fully charged, and I don’t have a great way to check. I was able to check all the time. I fished and moved around upstream for an hour. Used spotlock in current a few times during that stretch. 36v battery was down to 90% and the cranking battery was down to 93%.

I continued to fish with the trolling motor doing all the work. I ran the battery down to 83% after about three hours of fishing. Not bad. Cranking battery down to 91.

I turned the big motor on and idled downstream for about a mile. I checked my batteries with the charge-on-the-run feature. I was up to 85% on the 36v battery. I then cruised at 6 miles an hour for a while and then spent a mile opening up the big motor all the way to 54 MPH.

Got back to the dock and had 90% charge on my 36v and 93% on your 12v.

Day’s thoughts:
In strong spring current I bet I could run the battery down. The Ghost draws a lot of power at the top settings, and in the spring, I’ll live there. But I imagine it would take 6-8 hours to deplete the battery, and I usually don’t stay out more than 6 hours. It would absolutely make sense to have a second 40ah 36v battery for peace of mind on a full day trip. I will save my money for now, but it wouldn’t be unwise to get another 40ah, and it’s nice to have the option.

Impulse’s brand new 60ah 36v battery would have been perfect. It just wasn’t out when I was shopping. I think I could get all the fishing time I need with 60ah.

The cranking battery is a huge relief. It will last and last. No worries there. I used to turn off one graph or the other to conserve power. Won’t have to do that. I’ll add FFS eventually, and I won’t really worry about power. That’s nice.

It’s interesting, the charge-on-the-run system doesn’t top off the cranking battery and then begin charging the trolling battery. I think it levels them. If someone knows for sure, I’d love to hear. I watched it happen on the app, but I’d still love an expert explanation.

The charging of the 36v battery while I move is a huge relief to me. I am going to need power to the 36v battery more than the 12v battery.

Also, no fish today. Water temp is 39 degrees. I don’t know how to catch smallmouth in water that cold. My Ned rig wasn’t working, that’s for sure. Nor was my suspending jerkbait. Oh well. The batteries were fantastic! I cannot overstate what a relief it is to have real-time monitoring of charge.

Next I'll give clear benefits after one trip.
PXL_20230311_223302202 (1).jpg
(The picture above is from the boat. Even though it looks calm, water moves at a pretty good clip almost everywhere.)

[fxphil]

Gabe, thanks for the write up but i have a question, what is the difference between the prismatic and cylindrical?

[GabeJ]

Phil, the following is from lithiumion-batteries.com:

"The electrodes in a cylindrical cell are wound tightly and encased in a metal casing, This minimizes electrode material from breaking up from the mechanical vibrations, thermal cycling from charging and discharging and mechanical expansion of the current conductors inside from thermal cycling. Many cells are combined in series and in parallel to increase voltage and capacity of the battery pack. If one cell goes bad, the impact on the entire pack is low. With prismatic cells if one cell goes bad it can compromise the whole battery pack. Cylindrical cells radiate heat and control temperature more easily than prismatic cells."

There are advantages to prismatic, but I want reliability first. If one cylindrical cell goes bad, I won't notice. That won't be the same for prismatic cells batteries.

[GabeJ]

Update:

I took the boat out on two additional trips = three trips total. I was on the water for more than 6 hours with 5 of those being on the trolling motor. I didn't charge in between trips. I also ran the boat head first into very strong current. Took full power to continue movie.

After more than 6 hours on the batteries I ended up with 58% battery remaining on my 36v 40ah trolling motor battery and 82% on my 12v 120ah cranking battery.

The charge on the run worked fine. I don't use the big motor enough on most trips to make a huge difference in battery life, but it's nice to have, for sure.

I went home, plugged in the single charger and both batteries were up to 100% in fewer than 3 hours.

I'm now more confident than ever that this was the right combination for the right price.

The bluetooth is indispensable. I'll never have a boat without that. It is so nice.

They still haven't opened up the dam and I still haven't found any bass this season, so I'll continue with my reports.

Thanks for following. Feel free to ask any questions.

Gabe

[GabeJ]

Latest update:
I fished for 15 hours over three trips. Only used the big motor for a total of 10 minutes. The rest was the Lowrance Ghost. Had both HDS 9s running the whole time. Never paused or in sleep mode. I used the Ghost plus the spotlock feature the whole time. No wind. Low current. I kept the power of the Ghost under 70% throttle to maximize effeciency.

After the 15 hours of fishing I had:
64% on the 36v 40ah trolling motor battery.
68% on the 12v 120 cranking battery.

I think my conclusion is that if your boat is under 19 feet and you stay out of crazy current and are careful with your throttle settings on a brushless motor, 40AH is freaking plenty. Not even a question. Save the money.

[JJohnSind]

Phil, the following is from lithiumion-batteries.com:

There are advantages to prismatic, but I want reliability first. If one cylindrical cell goes bad, I won't notice. That won't be the same for prismatic cells batteries.

Yes. There are advantages/disadvantages to both, but regarding this highly touted aspect of the prismatic, I’d rather my battery fail so I can get it replaced than it degrade (as cells individually fail) without me ever noticing. Of course, failing during a tournament would suck, but ANYTHING could fail during a tournament. Prismatic is also supposed to have a higher cycle life, but, in the end, you’re going to get the benefits of the lithium switch with either. Cylindrical is supposed to be cheaper to produce, yet I’ve only seen one company that had cylindrical reasonably priced (compared to typical branded prismatic).

[GabeJ]

Yeah. It’s definitely an interesting topic. I feel getting a big brand with active participants here on the board is more important than the actual tech. But I like a lot of the features of prismatic batteries, for sure. Any size/weight benefit is also good, and the prismatic batteries offer that, if they’re put into the right case.