My boat is littered with remnants after a few days of fishing. Everything gets collected and thrown away. I once snagged a zoom brush hog that had swelled up to probably 6x the size of a normal one. It looked like something you would throw to try and catch tuna!
That is not correct according to any source I can find. The reason they are made of cellulose acetate is because it can be broken down naturally, therefore making it biodegradeable. As stated above, technically everything degrades given enough time, so where do you want to draw the line on what is and what isn't ok is up to you.Originally Posted by Idaho Sandman
More room on the outside. A good fart can feel really good
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Treat others like you want to be treated when on the water EVEN WHEN IN A TOURNAMENT! No fish is worth having a confrontation because you cut someone off or came in on top of someone.
I take it you are a smoker and had to look pretty hard to find your source.
https://www.earthday.org/tiny-but-de...luted-plastic/
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I don’t have a dog in the fight (other than I don’t like littering) but I think a couple terms are being conflated. Everything in our world is degradable meaning that chemically it breaks down over time. Half-life of materials differ. Biodegradable as already mentioned means that this chemical degradation happens because of a living organism, such as bacteria, aids the process or speeds it up. Cig butts and in particular cellulose acetate aren’t biodegradable. UV can break it down but it’s slow and the base chemicals are toxic.
Not a good thing to throw out. Now someone eating a banana and throwing the peel? Throw it where it’s not an eye sore and move on. It will be gone in no time.
https://uhs.berkeley.edu/tobaccofacts
I don't smoke, and I don't support throwing anything out the window of your truck or into the lake actually. I just think that using false information or contorting information to fit your argument makes your argument weak therefore it is easy to question the complete validity of it, even if it is the right thing to do. It's like if you lie to get the outcome you want, even if that outcome is the best outcome, all trust is lost when the lie comes out.
I search "is cellulose acetate biodegradable" on google and every link on the first page says "yes." Now it is important to understand that everything degrades over time, therefore we need to draw a line. Where do we draw the line? I say the line is at 0. Nothing is ok to throw out. If you are okay with a banana peel, are you okay with a piece of cardboard? Some sources say cardboard will degrade faster than a banana peel. So should I throw boxes in the lake?
A banana peel will take up to 2 years to break down when not in a compost pile. A lot of cardboard is less than this. Are you okay with throwing boxes overboard?
I did not say I was ok with throwing away cardboard lol. No offense but trying to argue that food stuffs in the environment are as bad as cigarette butts isn’t the hill I would die on. Here is a good study on its degradability and most of the “bio-degradable” claims are from labs in which they control the environment and use rare bacteria and enzymes to degrade the acetate portion of product. It has not been replicable in nature which is all that matters.
The previous studies show that deacetylation process and subsequent further degradation of CA can be accelerated by additives or favourable degradation conditions. However, full degradation of CA based materials or CBs under “normal natural conditions” has not been shown.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...45653520329295
You are correct the line is zero. I am saying that I’m a heck of a lot less irritated with someone throwing a french fry on the ground than a cigarette butt
I fished a tournament last year with a non boater. At noon I had one he didn't have any. Tough day. He broke out his lunch. Said "hey I got some bananas, you want one?"
I would have thrown both in the river.
I am making this same point on another thread. I think we are on the same side of this debate, but the problem is I cannot stand when others use incorrect information or hypocritical beliefs to support something that I also support because it makes our whole shared viewpoint look weak. I appreciate the article. I just read it, and I don't think that what you wrote is a fair summary of the article. This was a lab looking at how CA degrades when exposed to a lot of things and they found that it largely depends on a ton of factors. UV being a big one, humidity, heat, presence of some bacteria, and PH are also all factors. They are looking at a lot of chemical processes to add to the manufacture of the CA to aid in degradability. Below is a quote from the summary though. Your quote continued on with explaining they have had it in expected environmental conditions for 2 years without complete degradation. There are plenty of sources that say banana peels would still be present at 2 years in standard environmental conditions. The hill I am dying on here is that nothing is ok to litter. Using the buzz word biodegradable is just an excuse to think that some things are ok to throw out and others aren't, but everything will degrade in time and drawing an arbitrary line makes no sense to me.
"Biopolymers are inherently degradable in common natural environments although the time-frame differs greatly depending on the actual condition."
I agree with most of that. The add on to your last statement is that the bio polymer CA has decreasing degradability as the amount of acetyl-substitution increases. The cellulose portion can degrade more easily with less acetyl-substitution but that also negatively affects the CA product in terms of its intended use whether it be fishing line or another product according to the studies cited by the authors. I only add that because I know you actually work in this field and it is of interest.
Not trying to misrepresent the study and if I did I apologize. They really do make the point that many of the claims of the “bio” degradability studies have been challenged and in some cases proven wrong through further investigation in later studies. The early research into the biodegradation of CA polymer produced some conflicting conclusions. Some researchers reported that natural organisms could not degrade CA with a DS of greater than 1.5 [3, 9], while other researchers determined that CA with DS of 2.5 had limited utility due to its degradation [10, 11]. Later experiments identified that the key mechanism for degradation is an initial deacetylation step by chemical hydrolysis and acetylesterases, thereby allowing the degradation of the cellulose backbone with cellulase [12]. In hindsight, perhaps it is self-evident that the mechanisms for biodegradation should be different for cellulose versus CA polymers.
Sorry for geeking out with all the study stuff thamelau, lol.
I know you do this stuff for a living so that’s why I added the study portion. I enjoy talking about this stuff.
I agree they are showing it degrades completely differently under many different circumstances both natural and lab induced. I do agree you never need “noble lies” to help your argument. Never works out and erodes trust
I love the geeky stuff too and your study definitely puts CB's as a lot worse than I had originally thought. Thanks for the learning!
Will turtles and racoons eat banana peals?
Asking for a friend.
Hey brother, I’ve learned a ton from your input on fishing line and other things. It’s a complicated subject no doubt (I’m certainly no expert either lol) and I’m sure as time goes on more will be learned and much of what we “know” may change
Healthy debate is always great and I appreciate your thoughts as well
I can't believe this has gone 4 pages. On a site frequented by sportsmen who supposedly care about the waterways, how lazy do you have to be to not spend a couple bucks for a tupperware container for the boat (or bank) to save all used plastics, line, wrappers, cig butts, whatever, and empty it all in the trash cans back at the ramp? I get that the rest of America doesn't give a rat's behind about the woods and waters but if some fishermen think it's OK to toss things overboard when fishing, biodegradable or not, that's just nuts.
Was on the way to the lake with my father in law and wife and mother in law in the back seat. I saw a lady throw a cig out the window and I said “look at this bitch”. FIL didn’t say anything.
Get on the lake and MIL proceeds to throw her cig in the water. Wtf?!
No wonder he didn’t say anything.
FYI wife and I do not smoke. It’s disgusting.
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Call me crazy…but most tournaments I fish have a stipulation that if you break the law while competing you are immediately disqualified. So if you litter by throwing your plastics into the lake you should be automatically disqualified
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It is absolutely correct. Just a few articles and a complete google page. The definition of biodegradable is exactly as I stated.
https://seminole.wateratlas.usf.edu/...degradable.pdf
http://www.longwood.edu/cleanva/cigb...degradable.htm
https://www.google.com/search?q=are+...ent=safari#ss=
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