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  1. Member
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    #21
    They stocked Norman over last summer, how could anyone possibly know if it was a success or not? We'll have to see I guess
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  2. Member Frank A's Avatar
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    #22
    according to infor the lake norman stocking was not only fingerling but also 1 year fish and the stocking was using several different creeks, where you woud ting there is good cover for them to get a chance to hide (not in the middle of the lake}where the white perch and spotted bass roam. I'm all in for stocking all the major lakes in NC. ... but seems that Jordan aready has a gen pool of larger than normal bass why put F! in it when Yadkin lakes havent seen a 10 lb bass in years.

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  3. Member cattdaddy's Avatar
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDyer View Post
    Where can I read about Norman's Success Rate?
    They didn't stock many for the size of that lake.

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDyer View Post
    Where can I read about Norman's Success Rate?
    I read somewhere a while back that they went back to several sites where they stocked and shocked and to the best of my knowledge they only found 1 fish that had been stocked. Idk why in the world they want to try and "fix" norman. It is an incredible fishery. I love how they kill the grass in all the raleigh lakes(and many others around the state) and then decide they want to "fix" them. Maybe they should look at illegalizing tournament fishing during the spawn statewide for about 5 years in a row and see what kind of effect that has on our fisheries before they put non-native fish in them.

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    #25
    Seems I remember a tournament years ago, that gave each tournament boat a bag with fingerlings in it. Before they made their first cast they had to release the fish at their first fishing spot. Scattered the fish all over the lake in 30 minutes.

  6. Member cattdaddy's Avatar
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TritonJT View Post
    Seems I remember a tournament years ago, that gave each tournament boat a bag with fingerlings in it. Before they made their first cast they had to release the fish at their first fishing spot. Scattered the fish all over the lake in 30 minutes.
    Bass Matters Tourney at Santee but those were not F1s

  7. Member cattdaddy's Avatar
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TritonJT View Post
    Seems I remember a tournament years ago, that gave each tournament boat a bag with fingerlings in it. Before they made their first cast they had to release the fish at their first fishing spot. Scattered the fish all over the lake in 30 minutes.
    Bass Matters Tourney at Santee but those were not F1s

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by cattdaddy View Post
    Bass Matters Tourney at Santee but those were not F1s
    Yeah, it was probably before F1's were a thing.

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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffreydavisjr View Post
    They/we have a plan against that. Generally when they dump fingerlings in the lake they do it at whatever boat ramp that’s closest. However we are working on a plan to carry the fingerlings out into the middle of the lake on a pontoon boat and then releasing them.

    The theory is, if we just dump them at a boat ramp then release fish (spots) from tournaments will be close by and eat most of the fingerlings. By dropping them out into the middle of the lake or somewhere out in deep water it will give them a better chance of survival.

    Still working through the details.

    And as someone else mentioned, F1’s have been stocked at SML and the James River with incredible success. Not sure many of you NC boys fish Smith Mountain Lake, but it’s taking 25lbs of bass to win up there in the spring now.

    Wildlife has stated in 5 years after stocking we should begin seeing the benefits of the program.
    I would probably think about releasing the fingerlings around some type of hard cover whether it be grass, wood, or rock so they have a chance to hide would be your best bet. You release them some where deep and open they will exhaust themselves trying to find something to hide around and be easy to pick off.

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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by fisherman1111 View Post
    I wonder if they are doing the right thing here with stocking the F1 bass. I have been reading some articles about the F1 and wonder how much research results they actually have done. I applaud the fact they are trying to do something but they might be better served stocking the pure strains. I'm including an article and they are plenty more out there.
    TENNESSEE LAKE MANAGEMENT: THE TRUTH ABOUT F1 LARGEMOUTH BASS


    There was a time when I stocked F-1s regularly. Most other pond management companies working in this state still stock F-1s almost exclusively. F-1s are raised by far more fish farms in the southeast than are pure Floridas, which makes them much easier to procure consistently; and my competitors are all about doing things the easy way.
    There’s a genetic phenomenon called outbreeding depression, whereby the offspring of hybrids of two species often display inferior traits compared to either parent species. One of the first weakened traits that typically manifests is poor growth potential. This is why many state agencies now caution pond owners against stocking hybrid bluegill, or warn that a pond stocked with them will have to be totally renovated, i.e. poisoned and re-stocked, every four to six years. If you’ve ever fished a pond that had had hybrid bluegill for several years and you caught bluegill that averaged three inches long, this is why.
    Some biologists claim that Florida- and northern-strain largemouth are only two separate subspecies of the same species; but there are also those who claim they are two entirely separate species. Regardless of which is the case, there’s enough difference between the two genetically that anytime they cross, there is the potential for outbreeding depression in their offspring, just as with hybrid bluegill, hybrid crappie, or any other hybrid.
    One of the saddest large lakes I have ever worked on is a sixty-acre lake near Chattanooga. According to a resident on the lake, large bass were common the first few years after the lake was stocked. Neither that resident nor any of the other residents who fish could figure out why the bass size had dropped so precipitously; as I kept asking questions, I found the probable answer, before we ever saw the lake in person. It was stocked with F-1s, exclusively, from the start.
    When we electrofished it in October 2017, the largest bass we captured weighed 1.21 pounds. The bluegill-to-bass ratio was 4:1, which is not great, but better than the 2.18:1 ratio we found in a 150-acre lake we shocked that same month that had only pure-strain northern largemouth and yielded five bass over 18” in our survey including one that weighed just under five pounds.
    The difference? Those F-1 bass in that sixty-acre lake have been breeding with one another since the lake was stocked in the early 2000’s.
    We electrofished a two-acre pond in west Tennessee in June 2018; the pond had been stocked several years prior with F1 largemouth. The largest bass we found in our survey? Ten inches.
    I am not a genetic specialist; I couldn’t tell you all the ins and outs of outbreeding. I know from the fish genetics class I took that hybrids (whether fish or any other animal) are subject to a wide array of problems at the gene level, including aneuploidy which is when the fish has too few or too many chromosomes. We regularly stock pure Floridas into lakes that only have pure northern-strain largemouth, and those Floridas are almost guaranteed to interbreed with the northerns. The difference is that the pure Floridas can still choose to breed with other pure Floridas, and when F-1s happen, some of those fish are going to breed with pure Floridas or pure northerns, which should minimize the potential for outbreeding. The best example of how well stocking pure Floridas into a population of pure northerns can work, even after many years, is Chickamauga Lake. TWRA first began stocking pure Florida largemouth into the lake on a yearly basis in 2001; in March 2015, the state record of fourteen pounds, eight ounces that had stood since 1954 was bested by a fifteen-pound, three-ounce bass from Chickamauga. Ten-pound largemouth have become common on the lake, a size that was a true rarity when it only had northern-strain largemouth.
    But TWRA isn’t stocking F-1s into the lake – they’re stocking pure Floridas. And they stock hundreds of thousands of new pure Floridas into the lake every year.
    Outbreeding depression in F-1 largemouth is by no means my discovery: I’m just passing on to my clients the latest in scientific knowledge on largemouth bass. Floridas are much harder to source, which is why we’re now raising our own stock.
    If the company you’re talking with is pushing you to stock F1 largemouth, ask them about the negatives that come with these fish. If they tell you there are no negatives, you’re dealing with a company that cares more about their wallet than your lake.
    Nice report fishermen1111. Stocking of largemouth bass sub-species and their hybrids into established populations in small impoundments, large reservoirs and even large rivers like the Ohio River is occurring nationwide. These fisheries management programs often are driven by politics over scientific reason. The programs then become large scale ecological experiments with no fallback potential. Science suggests the potential for great harm, yet the programs continue. Cross your fingers folks and prepare for a wild ride.

  11. Member berudd's Avatar
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    #31
    Regarding the quote above on the potential downside of stocking F1 hybrids, I think the negative cases were all in small bodies of water where the stocked fish were either the only bass or a much, much higher percentage. It even mentions that when stocking into existing establish population of northern bass, the negative effects may not be seen.

    And, as always, there is another perspective. There is something call hybrid vigor where the hybrid takes on positive attribute of both pure strains:


    When a Native or Northern-strain fish breeds with a Florida strain, the first generation becomes a hybrid of both subspecies (strains), resulting in the F1 Largemouth, sometimes called Tiger Bass. F1 fish exhibit what is known as "hybrid heterosis" or "hybrid vigor," which means they exhibit enhanced characteristics of each parent subspecies. Like the Native Bass, F1 Bass are less susceptible to winter mortality than their Florida-strain parent. And, like the Florida strain, they maintain an increased growth rate over a more extended period than their northern-strain parent. For those reasons, F1 Largemouth have become very popular in stocking throughout the southeast, where winter mortality is still a concern. Just keep in mind that hybrid heterosis/vigor gets lost in subsequent generations (F2, F3, etc.), so you'll want to restock every 5 or 6 years to maintain the enhanced traits in the gene pool of your pond or lake.


    There are just a few more things to consider when deciding whether the Florida-strain or F1’s are right for your pond:



    • The size of your pond: We only recommend stocking these two species if your pond is 3 acres or more; otherwise, you won't get the full benefit of these fishes.
    • The availability of the fish from nearby hatcheries: Fish don't travel well. And, short of trucking fish straight from peninsular Florida, it can be hard to get pure Florida strain. For these reasons, Pond King typically only carries the Northern and F1 strains.


    If you are still unsure about which strain is right for your pond and your goals, don't hesitate to give us a call or send us an email. We'll help you figure it out.
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  12. Member
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    #32
    Where are they getting these from? We had a massive fish kill last summer on our ten acre pond and need to restock. I can't find any F1 fingerlings within a days drive of central NC

  13. Member
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
    according to infor the lake norman stocking was not only fingerling but also 1 year fish and the stocking was using several different creeks, where you woud ting there is good cover for them to get a chance to hide (not in the middle of the lake}where the white perch and spotted bass roam. I'm all in for stocking all the major lakes in NC. ... but seems that Jordan aready has a gen pool of larger than normal bass why put F! in it when Yadkin lakes havent seen a 10 lb bass in years.
    There were two fish over 9lbs weighed at the CBC last year. Pretty good for a lake that gets hammered by big tournaments throughout the year, every year.

    Steve Dyer
    Mt. Pleasant, NC

  14. Member
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    #34
    i have stocked both pure florida and f1 in my 60 and 30 acre lakes in eastern nc to increase diversity .first round from sportfish usa from alabama were 2 inch fish put in first week june they were one and a half pounds by mid october until hurricane matthew came in and flooded pond and put them into neuse river second stocking same results same year hurricane florence flooded again so guess I stocked neuse river twice . i have experience only on jordan I doubt can improve gene pool of those fish most are foot balls applaud marty stone and others for trying to make improvements in our fishing due to amount of fishing pressure we take for granted how many meat fisherman there are and actually the mortality we cause from fishing for example how many times have caught a fish on a spinnerbait and it goes through an eye did that fish adapt to one eye or parish and how many fish we catch deep summertime and release and end up dying. marty stone actually hit the nail on the head commentating on one of the mlf tournmanets on falls and jordan that need to keep lake levels up during spawn so fingerlings would have a higher survival rate if corp engineers did that our fishing would be unbelievable

  15. Member
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by fishyfeet View Post
    i have stocked both pure florida and f1 in my 60 and 30 acre lakes in eastern nc to increase diversity .first round from sportfish usa from alabama were 2 inch fish put in first week june they were one and a half pounds by mid october until hurricane matthew came in and flooded pond and put them into neuse river second stocking same results same year hurricane florence flooded again so guess I stocked neuse river twice . i have experience only on jordan I doubt can improve gene pool of those fish most are foot balls applaud marty stone and others for trying to make improvements in our fishing due to amount of fishing pressure we take for granted how many meat fisherman there are and actually the mortality we cause from fishing for example how many times have caught a fish on a spinnerbait and it goes through an eye did that fish adapt to one eye or parish and how many fish we catch deep summertime and release and end up dying. marty stone actually hit the nail on the head commentating on one of the mlf tournmanets on falls and jordan that need to keep lake levels up during spawn so fingerlings would have a higher survival rate if corp engineers did that our fishing would be unbelievable
    Your experience reflects warnings by fishery scientists regarding the use of F1 hybrid bass. It is tempting to think that the impacts of stocking fertile bass hybrids will be confined to the stocking location. Your experience demonstrates that potential negative impacts could occur in connected river systems like the Neuse.

  16. Member
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    #36
    Here is an option, albeit an expensive one, for stocking bass in small waterbodies. This Pond Boss thread discusses the history of production of sterile and useful triploid fish starting with grass carp. It also speaks to production and stocking of sterile triploid bass as a option for producing high quality bass fisheries. High quality is maintained by limiting the density and preventing overpopulation. Realize this is a high quality bass option and that panfish size will suffer.

    Many states require triploid grass carp be used and be inspected to verify ploidy inspection before they are stocked.

    https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthrea...&Number=105619
    Last edited by csurp; 02-08-2023 at 08:23 AM.

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    #37
    I have some great news for our fisheries. Read the link below. Instead of giving your money to the ncwrc who has never done anything but obliterate world class fisheries in nc we should All invest our money into buying a lot of these and doing our own stocking especially in those Raleigh lakes. I’m gonna make sure I do my part.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/15504222810...mis&media=COPY

  18. Member
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post
    I have some great news for our fisheries. Read the link below. Instead of giving your money to the ncwrc who has never done anything but obliterate world class fisheries in nc we should All invest our money into buying a lot of these and doing our own stocking especially in those Raleigh lakes. I’m gonna make sure I do my part.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/15504222810...mis&media=COPY
    This post might be entirely tongue in cheek but please be aware that stocking fish in the public waters of North Carolina is illegal. See: https://www.ncwildlife.org/Fishing/H...ocking-Permits for permit requirements.

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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post
    I have some great news for our fisheries. Read the link below. Instead of giving your money to the ncwrc who has never done anything but obliterate world class fisheries in nc we should All invest our money into buying a lot of these and doing our own stocking especially in those Raleigh lakes. I’m gonna make sure I do my part.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/15504222810...mis&media=COPY
    DON'T DO IT. Spotted bass are why you don't hear about DD's being caught in Norman anymore.

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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody b View Post
    DON'T DO IT. Spotted bass are why you don't hear about 9 pounds winning tournaments any more on lake Norman like always happened before the spots

    there……I fixed it for ya…….everyone knows it was the Dead Sea before some wonderful souls brought them from lake keowee and created an incredible fishery. Largemouth are just as plentiful as ever and bigger than ever in that lake.

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