Thread: The trades …

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  1. #1
    Dumbass bilgerat's Avatar
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    The trades …

    Didn’t want to piggyback on the current custom home thread and the discussion has taken a turn toward the lack of skilled labor. So here’s some thoughts from a 30+ year tradesman …

    1) Trades have been marginalized here in the US for longer than many think. I graduated from a public HS in 1982. This particular school (again, not a vo-tech but a normal HS) was very unique in that it had 2 complete woodworking shops, a print shop, a metalworking shop, a 3 bay auto shop, an electric shop and a horticulture area. Back then in spite of all of that, the shops were where the discipline problems and academic non achievers were routinely dumped by the administrators because they didn’t want to deal with them. Everyone loves having access to skilled labor but ew, I don’t want any parts of that …

    2) For the longest time, there was not a “skills shortage”, it was a wage shortage. Management vehemently denies that to this day but that’s how it was from our perspective. They have loosened up the purse strings somewhat but for the most part it’s been too little too late.

    3) Many trade based businesses still run on outdated principles and ideas about how things get done. Before things got bad for employers, many clung to the old “Don’t like it ? I got 5 guys waitin’ that’ll be glad to have your job” mentality. No respect for the workforce, rule by fear and intimidation. Our response in large was to steer our kids away from the same path we took. Now it’s come to a head and the employers are scrambling. They’re the victims of their own short sightedness. In my industry overall, the shops are for the most part outdated, cold, dark and filthy. Yeah, it’s a dirty job by nature but there’s still the mentality of “That’s how it’s always been so why change things now?” … You’re not gonna catch too many flies with that vinegar. Any kid smart enough to understand today’s hardware AND the complex electronics that control it all is not gonna work in some shitty cave. He’ll go work in a comfortable environment for more money and better advancement opportunities.

    4) The ridiculousness of the phrase “Go learn a trade” … a personal favorite of mine. It’s a frequently thrown around hollow blanket statement that implies that any aimless half wit that can’t cut it anywhere else would be well served if only they went and “learned a trade” … The skilled trades don’t need nor have time for anyone like that. We’re all born hardwired for success in different disciplines - mechanically inclined, artistically, etc. Just as not everyone is Harvard Law stock, that doesn’t mean the remainder should have tools in their hands either.

    5) I grew up in an environment where tools were common. That coupled with my natural pre disposition for wanting to know how stuff worked led me to where I am now. But how many people grew up in a “call the guy” when something broke house ? Not that there’s anything wrong with that but the concept of fixing things or building them from scratch is a foreign to the vast majority of people these days.
    Last edited by bilgerat; 12-09-2022 at 12:14 PM.
    Ranting incoherently

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    #2
    Union trades are a great option. I've been plumbing for 25 years 18 of them union. It's been a great career choice. There are many days I dream of sitting at a desk in a warm office when it's 18* and I'm working outside all winter. But the spring and fall are great times to work outside.

  3. Member skeeterator's Avatar
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    #3
    #5 is an interesting point. Lots of guys here in the lounge "call the guy" for every little thing. I was brought up in a home where we fixed everything ourselves, "if one man built it another can take it apart and fix it". My fathers mindset has served me well over the years as there's nothing I won't try to tackle myself.
    We also had metal shop, woodworking classes etc in the 80's and I wish that were still a thing today.

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    #4
    Great start to this thread.

    Completely agree, that not everyone can just go learn a trade. The highly skilled trades, take brains to do. No matter what your book or apprenticeship told you, when it isn't that way in the field, you have to figure it out.

    One reason for the lack of people, the softening of society. People do not want to get dirty, come home filthy or have to sweat. They want that climate controlled office. They also think they are owed $100k despite their severe lack of knowledge and experience.

    Tradesmen/women still get looked down upon. We see it all the time. Guys in company trucks, in dirty jeans getting looked down on and disrespected by those in the office where they are working. Thinking they are all mighty with their Tesla's. Little do they realize that most guys on site with tools are bringing home more money than those who are belittling them. They don't see the guys 2500HD, his house, boat, etc. They just see the dirty guy in the company truck.

    This is going to become an even bigger problem as we move forward.
    Huntin' Ducks, Chasin' Pheasant, Catching Fish

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    #5
    Just watch YouTube

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bassin_7 View Post
    One reason for the lack of people, the smarteningof society. People do not want to get dirty, come home filthy or have to sweat. They want that climate controlled office.
    FIFY

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bassnpro1 View Post
    FIFY

    So you believe those not in the trades are smarter than those in them?

    I know several who left successful white collar work because they were bored. The took the initial pay cut, learned a trade and have done very well for themselves. From running crews to owning companies.

    I wouldn't call it a smartening, I call it a lack of understanding and laziness.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bassnpro1 View Post
    Just watch YouTube
    We actually had a drywaller say that is how he learned to plumb up metal door frames and it was not his job. To bad its the drywall screws that keep the door true. Much drywall repair had to be done that day to fix that mess.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bassin_7 View Post
    So you believe those not in the trades are smarter than those in them?

    I know several who left successful white collar work because they were bored. The took the initial pay cut, learned a trade and have done very well for themselves. From running crews to owning companies.

    I wouldn't call it a smartening, I call it a lack of understanding and laziness.
    Given the choice between two equal paying jobs, I don't know many who want to come home dirty, filthy, and sweaty if they didn't have too.

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    #10
    you should see the looks I get sometimes when I say my daughter has her cdl and drives trucks. I could not be happier for her, she found something she really likes to do, but others look down upon it. Their loss.
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  11. Member skeeterator's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bassnpro1 View Post
    FIFY
    Sure, everyone's fn brilliant till their AC quits, hot water heater takes a dump, fuel pump goes out on their truck etc then they're as dumb as a box of hammers and aren't smart enough to turn a wrench.

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    #12
    I also have news for some......

    Look around you, if you haven't noticed, to say society has "smartened".......

    Don't believe that for a second. It is quite the opposite.
    Huntin' Ducks, Chasin' Pheasant, Catching Fish

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bassnpro1 View Post
    Given the choice between two equal paying jobs, I don't know many who want to come home dirty, filthy, and sweaty if they didn't have too.

    Equal pay was never mentioned.

    We have guys/girls at 22, that are making $75k - $80k, with 5 weeks paid vacation, plus holidays, company matched 401k and medical. With zero debt.

    Their friends at the same age are working retail or owe $50k - $100k in school loans. They are also make under $60k
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    #14
    Some can and some can’t. I’m a technician of 30 years but there are times I call someone. If I’m not 100% sure I can do the job 100% right I pay someone who can. I see do it yourselfers cars all the time. It would terrify you to see the vehicles and brake jobs some of them do. They are driving all around you with half ass brake jobs and 50% or less stopping ability. That’s just one example. I’m not saying all, but many. Not all of us are built the same.

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    I worked as a auto tech for 30 or more. Some people looked down on what I did for a living. Raised 3 kids, have a good life and made A LOT more money then majority of our friends that went to college and have “careers”. Raising kids to think they have to go to college is wrong. Saying to kids that are not the brightest to learn a trade is wrong. Most skilled tradesmen I know are pretty sharp people. Heck I would say most would have been very successful in any industry/career they would have attempted.
    Semper Fi

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    #16
    99r93s is correct in his point too. Some people should not be allowed to touch tools. So please don’t tell all kids to learn a trade. Lol
    Semper Fi

  17. Dumbass bilgerat's Avatar
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    #17
    It’s a cultural shift and it’s not gonna get fixed anytime soon. That’s a tough pill to swallow as we’re impatient and want results & answers NOW DAMN IT …

    It’s also global.

    I work for the largest US distributor of a major German diesel engine manufacturer. They have a training center in Michigan and have a large number of German transplants working there. I had a long discussion with one of them about this and learned how things were done at one time in Germany …

    Children were tested at an early age to determine their strengths & weaknesses in various subjects/disciplines. The results of those tests would determine the paths they were encouraged to take. Trades were as strongly emphasized & respected as science & engineering. They were all taken very seriously and the education started at at much younger age and resulted in a very qualified/diverse workforce. Hate to say it but a 20 year old apprentice from Germany was in many cases on par or ahead with the same tradesman here with several years head start.

    It has since unraveled for them as well, about the same time as the whole global economy thing started growing wings as the free world started prepping the third world to be the “Dirty Jobs” piece in the puzzle. We’re starting to see the results of that now and not liking it too much.
    Ranting incoherently

  18. Go Cubs Go cubswin's Avatar
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    Can you fish a jig?

  19. Stocks/Investments Moderator boneil's Avatar
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    #19
    If only there was a way to entice people to learn a trade or nursing or teaching or other type of skill we need more people to learn.
    Thanos was the hero

  20. Dumbass bilgerat's Avatar
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by cubswin View Post
    Can you fish a jig?
    Can you run a rack ?
    Ranting incoherently

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