Preferred reel size for a NRX+ 822 DSR?

[JJohnSind]

I’m a little more obsessed with weight. Until you fish with something extremely light and balanced, you don’t realize how much sensitivity can be gained. I am impressed that the 4000 Tatula is only 7.4 oz., but that is still almost 2 full ounces heavier than my 2500 reel - and that 2 oz. is almost 2/3’s the weight of my entire rod. Just not for me. I can cast my 2500 75 yards with ease, how much farther do you need to cast? Most of the time I’m choosing to fish inside 50 yards. Even that may be too far when fishing in strong current and deep water (Great Lakes scenario) - longer casts tend to hang up more, at least it seems to for me.

I say just go to the store and put on the reels you are considering, on the exact rods you plan on using and see how it feels to you. This subject seems to be polarized to depend on others’ opinions.

[Drakestar]

And for what it’s worth, and to argue the topic conclusively from both sides: the reason anglers seem to prefer 4000-size reels on their light spinning gear is that the spool holds so much line that this line stays near the top of the spool for the entire cast. That means it comes off the spool easier while, on smaller reels, the line comes from deeper in the spool and there’s more friction along the spool lip.

So those are your trade offs, friction in the stripper guide vs friction on the spool lip.

[reason162]

So those are your trade offs, friction in the stripper guide vs friction on the spool lip.

Presumably that's why "long cast" surf reels have very tall, shallow spools - to keep the spool dia reasonably sized while negating pulling line from deeper within the spool on a cast.

I'm a fan of how Shimano doubled down on their line lay tech with the new Stella for the same reason. The way that super slow oscillation stacks line tightly paralleled instead of up and down the spool really makes a difference in casting distance.

[JJohnSind]

And for what it’s worth, and to argue the topic conclusively from both sides: the reason anglers seem to prefer 4000-size reels on their light spinning gear is that the spool holds so much line that this line stays near the top of the spool for the entire cast. That means it comes off the spool easier while, on smaller reels, the line comes from deeper in the spool and there’s more friction along the spool lip.

So those are your trade offs, friction in the stripper guide vs friction on the spool lip.

Don't you think that braid narrows that margin? My 2500 Exists have shallow spools, I can literally cast it to the end of the spool… but I really don’t need/want casts that long. The thinner diameter braid just doesn’t take up that much space on the spool. At the end of a 75 yard cast, 16lb braid literally only took up 3mm of spool line depth on an Exist (I actually measured). The other thing I noticed, is that the coils coming of a spool is way wider that the spool lip. I honestly am not even sure if the line has much contact with the lip. (I actually paid attention to this because I experimented with different guide types and sizes and how the coils are reduced when custom building my own rods). I believe Fuji has slow motion video out explaining the correlation between the line coils and their KR guide system theory. Watching this video will reveal how wide line comes of spools and how rod slap is probably your biggest enemy, not spool lip friction.

As far as the drag goes, my 2500 feels more “intricate” than my larger reels. The larger reels seem to have stronger drags, but not necessarily “smoother” drags (when it comes to finessing light lines anyway) - at least not in the case of the 2500 Exist. In all fairness, the drags on my 2500 Ballistic MQ’s and Stradic CI4+’s are not as intricately adjustable as the Exists’. Those reels’ drags have never failed me though. I’ve gone to 3000’s in the past under the belief that a wider spool was more beneficial too, but I’m not seeing any benefits anymore since switching to braid.

[Drakestar]

Don't you think that braid narrows that margin? My 2500 Exists have shallow spools, I can literally cast it to the end of the spool… but I really don’t need/want casts that long. The thinner diameter braid just doesn’t take up that much space on the spool. At the end of a 75 yard cast, 16lb braid literally only took up 3mm of spool line depth on an Exist (I actually measured). The other thing I noticed, is that the coils coming of a spool is way wider that the spool lip. I honestly am not even sure if the line has much contact with the lip. (I actually paid attention to this because I experimented with different guide types and sizes and how the coils are reduced when custom building my own rods). I believe Fuji has slow motion video out explaining the correlation between the line coils and their KR guide system theory. Watching this video will reveal how wide line comes of spools and how rod slap is probably your biggest enemy, not spool lip friction.

That 4000 argument isn’t mine, so I’m not prepared to rigorously defend it. I saw it online and wanted to post it, especially because it kinda made sense to me. It doesn’t convince me, though. Personally, I don’t own a single 4000 reel; I have a bunch of 2000 and 2500s and two 3000s. Then… nothing, until a 6000 and an 8000 reel on my super heavy surf rods. I don’t feel the need to buy 4000-size reels for my finesse rods now, it seems kind of silly to me.

I know that Shimano made a big deal of their improved spool lip between the 18 and 22 Stella, so coil size and the spool lip are at least in play when it comes to marketing claims. I also feel that some small deep spool reels create “caverns” when casting far (i.e. I had regular 20lbs braid on my Exists 2000 initially and that did lead to that situation, and I disliked it enough to quickly respool with 10lbs Fireline instead). All that makes me feel there’s something to the whole discussion, I just don’t know how big of a deal it really is. If people want fish 4000-size reels they should do it. I’d never suggest that kind of reel on an 822 DSR, though. As I said, it feels silly (because it’s way out of proportion).

As far as the drag goes, my 2500 feels more “intricate” than my larger reels. The larger reels seem to have stronger drags, but not necessarily “smoother” drags (when it comes to finessing light lines anyway) - at least not in the case of the 2500 Exist. In all fairness, the drags on my 2500 Ballistic MQ’s and Stradic CI4+’s are not as intricately adjustable as the Exists’. Those reels’ drags have never failed me though. I’ve gone to 3000’s in the past under the belief that a wider spool was more beneficial too, but I’m not seeing any benefits anymore since switching to braid.

I’m under the impression that larger spools afford stronger drags with more available force (because there’s more surface area on the washers), but that doesn’t mean smoother drag. If anything, the additional surface area makes the drag coarser and less smooth, I think.

Drag is the main reason I add high-end reels to my light-line spinning combos. I don’t get to fish for trophy smallies in crystal clear water, where that smooth drag sounds really important, but having caught a DD largemouth on a dropshot with 8lbs leader just earlier this year, I was very thankful for the Excense A drag. There’s just a level of confidence that smooth drag provides when fighting a fish for what seems forever and you have to slowly tire her out. Never had issues with $200 reel drags either, but I haven’t caught a monster on one of those reels! The less developed drag might skip and be a problem, or it might be totally fine - I don’t intend to find out, though :) Better safe than sorry.

[MainelySmallmouth]

Let me ask you this - is there a limit to spool dia that would adversely affect distance? If there's an 8k reel that weighs 7oz, would that be the logical upgrade in your universe?

That is a fair question, and I agree with you that there are limits to the benefits a larger spool would provide. Too your point, there are 5000 size reels out there, that I have never once thought, let's mount that on X rod. Like everything in fishing, every single "pro" will say, do what works best for you or do what you have confidence in. FOR ME, based on trying hundreds of combos (no joke on this one) the 4000 size reel has been my go to on all my setups. And since making that transition several years ago, I have eliminated just about all line management issues, have appreciated the drag performance of the larger arbor (greater drag surface) and have benefited from the longer casting distance on all my set ups. Admittedly I have very few deep spool reels (Kage MQ 4000), with almost all my reels being shallow spool setups. And my reels of choice all balance perfectly with my setups, if you believe in the finger test (realize there are skeptics of that method of declaring balance). All of my reels weigh between 7.4 oz and 8.1 oz and I can say without hesitation that my reel of choice doesn't make any of my combos feel "not light"....

I am almost exclusively a spinning reel/rod combo guy. I have 22 of them and I have never looked back since moving to the 4000 size reel on all my combos (and yes, one could say I am pretty committed to this approach, biasedly and financially so)...

[MainelySmallmouth]

I’m a little more obsessed with weight. Until you fish with something extremely light and balanced, you don’t realize how much sensitivity can be gained. I am impressed that the 4000 Tatula is only 7.4 oz., but that is still almost 2 full ounces heavier than my 2500 reel - and that 2 oz. is almost 2/3’s the weight of my entire rod. Just not for me. I can cast my 2500 75 yards with ease, how much farther do you need to cast? Most of the time I’m choosing to fish inside 50 yards. Even that may be too far when fishing in strong current and deep water (Great Lakes scenario) - longer casts tend to hang up more, at least it seems to for me.

I say just go to the store and put on the reels you are considering, on the exact rods you plan on using and see how it feels to you. This subject seems to be polarized to depend on others’ opinions.

I too like lighter reels, as it does make the entire combo in your hand feel like you are holding air, but for me there is a limit to how light something feels before it becomes too light (almost like you are holding nothing). Just like I said below on spool size, I believe there is a diminishing return on how light a reel can be. At some point is there such a thing as too light as nothing will balance with it.? Today's 4000 reels weigh less than most 2000 size reels used to weigh. The reels I fish are in the 7.4 to 7.9 oz range, which is super light, but enough weight to balance out a majority of the sticks in my line up. I realize that 4000 size reels (and some 3000 size reels) used to weight 9+ oz, but those days are long gone with new materials used to make reels.

And your point on casting distance is a good one. It depends on the water you are fishing and technique. I fish a lot of gin clear water, so any and all distance away from the boat is a plus, but I am not trying to throw my drop shot set up 50 yards. Same with a weightless Senko. This is where a larger spool is helpful IMHO. Based on the shallow spool design, on the retrieve, the line lay is better because the line isn't being pulled onto the spool in these small tight coils on these deep spool 2000 and 2500 reels. The shallow spool on my 4000 spools lays line better, so when I am trying to throw a weightless senko to a specific target, the line comes off the spool more freely with less friction/tangling and I find that leads to better, more accurate casts with less effort even if the target is only 15 to 25 yards away. To me, this is where the larger shallow spools shine... That, and drag performance.

I would add that there are many really good options on the 3000 size reels. In fact, the difference between 3000 and 4000 reels in some cases is often a small increase in line pick up (inches per turn), spool options and a small increase/decrease in weight. I have fished 3000 exsence on several of the rods in my line up, and too me the difference in performance characteristics were small/negligible. However, in my hands, the 3000 just felt small, but the weight difference wasn't really meaningful.

[Mackl]

I agree with all comments on here that say to put a light or super light reel on that rod. A super light overall combo simply adds to sensitivity in my opinion. And as mentioned with drop shotting, especially with the NRX+ 822 I think a 2500 reel casts more than far enough. I checked the boxes on 2 of my reels that make this a super light combo, and are at a good price point.

Shimano Vanford is 6.3oz
Daiwa Tatula LT is 6.2oz

Either of these or others that are under about 6.5oz make this combo feel super light and translates into more sensitivity. And a reel even lighter (if affordable) I assume would be even better. But either way this combo raises the bar pretty high for being amazing.

[Phippy]

JDM 19' Vanquish C3000XG is perfect, the color match is pretty spot on and feather light combo. Can find them easily under $350US or the JDM 21' Exsence will feel/perform the same. I fish mainly off shore open water situations never has line capacity been a issue.

[lisa1117]

JDM 19' Vanquish C3000XG is perfect, the color match is pretty spot on and feather light combo. Can find them easily under $350US or the JDM 21' Exsence will feel/perform the same. I fish mainly off shore open water situations never has line capacity been a issue.

Yep!
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[kacordy]

I decided on using a Zenon 2000SH paired with my NRX+ 822S DSR. The combo weighs 8.2 ounces.

[NRXfever]

I use a Jdm ballistic in 2000 size on mine and it works great and is super light ... I have used a 2500 also and that works too... pick what works for u and don't worry about what everyone else says... u

[dropshot1$]

I See people posting this question all the time there’s not that many options. you want something that’s a match as far as quality and weight. There’s only one or two reels That will do it, without spending more on something you don’t need . One of them is the Shimano vanford in a 2500 or 3000. The other one’s a tatula in a 2500 or 3000. I’d go 3k. I have the title and the 3000 size it’s amazing it’s less expensive than the van for there’s no reason to spend the extra money on the vanford in my opinion.

[MainelySmallmouth]

And for what it’s worth, and to argue the topic conclusively from both sides: the reason anglers seem to prefer 4000-size reels on their light spinning gear is that the spool holds so much line that this line stays near the top of the spool for the entire cast. That means it comes off the spool easier while, on smaller reels, the line comes from deeper in the spool and there’s more friction along the spool lip.

So those are your trade offs, friction in the stripper guide vs friction on the spool lip.

That is one of the best benefits of larger arbor spools on bigger reels. The other huge benefit is drag surface. Larger reels simply provide better drag performance because they provide more drag surface, and when fighting big smallies on light line, drag performance is king (especially as all reels move away from back reeling). And at some point how light does something need to be? Its like trying to be happier than happy.... Once you reach a certain weight, the next step is balance, does the reel balance with your rod or is too heavy (tip up) or too light (tip down).

[Real L]

Balance has always been though as someting positive and it can be for certain types of presentation. For drop shotting I prefer tip down. Most of the action given to a bait and most of the strikes are felt raising the tip and I want a certain ''resistance'' that helps me juge the mouvement of the bait or the surplus tension from a bass that has taken the lure. I know this might be extreme but ... this is what I like and it seems to work .. for me.

[MainelySmallmouth]

I decided on using a Zenon 2000SH paired with my NRX+ 822S DSR. The combo weighs 8.2 ounces.

Cordy, let me know your thoughts on the zenon reel. You've purchased enough Daiwa gear from me to provide a good comparison. :-)

[HobeyBaker]

I use a 3000 sized compact frame Certate on my 822s. Larger spool means higher line pick up and better line management.

[Big_fish]

I will never understand the argument of bigger reels providing smoother drag when it comes to finesse fishing. Your not going to get smoother drag for light line than 1000 size trout reels. (I have caught plenty of 10lb+ trout with 2lb flouro and never had a problem.) This is because most of them have only 1 felt washer in the drag stack. The more felt washers you add to the drag stack, the more resistance it takes to turn that spool, and the less smooth it becomes.

There is a reason Japan makes a lot of “finesse tune” or “finesse custom” versions of reels from Daiwa and Shimano. They are made specifically for finesse fishing with lighter drag and lighter line. They do this by decreasing the size of the body and using a shallow spool. But most importantly decreasing the lbs of drag and the number of felt washers in the drag stack.

However this is true to a certain extent. Smaller sized reels have very fine tune adjustments in the lower lb drag pressures, while larger reels have very fine tune adjustments in the higher lb drag pressures. When you start getting into the upper limit of drag pressures on smaller reels, the less smooth they’re going to become and you would be better off with a larger reel.

But we are talking about dropshotting with light line. Let’s say you are using 6lb test, your drag pressure is going be set somewhere around 1-2lb of drag. The smaller reel is going to give you the better performance and have a lot more fine tune adjustments in the range.

[Big_fish]

And as far as bigger reels giving you better line management, I can agree with that when it comes to flouro or mono. But when using braid to a short leader I don’t see a difference personally.

To each their own though, and that’s why it’s great to have so many options so everyone can choose what works best for them. I don’t think there is one right answer for everybody

[MainelySmallmouth]

I will never understand the argument of bigger reels providing smoother drag when it comes to finesse fishing. Your not going to get smoother drag for light line than 1000 size trout reels. (I have caught plenty of 10lb+ trout with 2lb flouro and never had a problem.) This is because most of them have only 1 felt washer in the drag stack. The more felt washers you add to the drag stack, the more resistance it takes to turn that spool, and the less smooth it becomes.

There is a reason Japan makes a lot of “finesse tune” or “finesse custom” versions of reels from Daiwa and Shimano. They are made specifically for finesse fishing with lighter drag and lighter line. They do this by decreasing the size of the body and using a shallow spool. But most importantly decreasing the lbs of drag and the number of felt washers in the drag stack.

However this is true to a certain extent. Smaller sized reels have very fine tune adjustments in the lower lb drag pressures, while larger reels have very fine tune adjustments in the higher lb drag pressures. When you start getting into the upper limit of drag pressures on smaller reels, the less smooth they’re going to become and you would be better off with a larger reel.

But we are talking about dropshotting with light line. Let’s say you are using 6lb test, your drag pressure is going be set somewhere around 1-2lb of drag. The smaller reel is going to give you the better performance and have a lot more fine tune adjustments in the range.

Drag performance is driven by the surface area of the drag washers. It is simple physics. The drag washers/drag stack on a 1000 reel is substantially smaller than the drag washers/drag stack on a 4000 reel. Just pull out the drag washers from each reel size and compare them. The more "surface" area you have on a drag washer, the more consistent and smooth the drag performance will be (no skipping, jumping, sticking). Consistent and smooth drag performance when fighting larger fish = better control of the fish, allowing an angler to let the rod and the reel wear fish out while not giving up complete control to the fish where it can take you into cover and break you off. Smooth drag is not a function of just having no drag pressure and letting a reel free spool. Drag performance is the ability to adjust the drag setting to a "pressure" that allows a fish to pull line smoothly off the reel when it surges, but not let the fish to swim freely during the fight.

If less washers and less washer surface was the key to smooth drag performance, then why would all high end reels have drag stacks of three washers and why would manufacturers create shallow spools on smaller reels to increase the size of the washers they put in their reels??? They do it because the science says the greater the drag surface, the better the drag performance. Go one step further, the manufacturers of higher end reels replace felt washers with carbon fiber washers because the science says that the surface of a carbon fiber washer provides a better surface that results in better drag performance under load, and load is a big deal when fighting larger, hard surging, fish on a smaller reel with smaller drag washers. All of today's reels provide micro drag adjustments. They all do, so that an angler can really dial in the drag in a way that helps them land more fish. And, it bears repeating, it depends on the fish you are chasing. I am chasing large smallmouth, 5+ lb fish, in ultra clear water systems, that take a lot of pressure, so light line, florocarbon line and spinning gear are almost always in my hands and if I am lucky enough to connect with a 6+ lb fish, I want all the odds stacked in my favor to let me land that fish, get a photo and release it.

Like others have said, use what is more comfortable, feels best for you. I agree with that statement 100%. As the saying goes, opinions are like AHs, everyone has one, so to each their own. However it is impossible to deny the physics behind what drives drag performance, line management and casting distance.