I use a 3000 size that is lite enough to balance the rod. I like a bigger reel so I can get a good amount of line retrieval per turn for when they run straight at the boat.
I use a 3000 size that is lite enough to balance the rod. I like a bigger reel so I can get a good amount of line retrieval per turn for when they run straight at the boat.
Interesting take..... One of the best finesse fishermen on the planet, Brandon Palaniuk, fishes with a 4000 size Certate on his finesse sticks. And one of THE spokesmen for G Loomis, Josh Douglas, only fishes a 4000 size Shimano Exsence on all his NRX set ups. I don't think coil size coming off the larger arbor is a problem or that creating the lightest of lightest possible combos is more significant than drag performance with light line, line management, casting performance on the spool or gear ratio. All of which is better with larger arbor reels. These two individuals speak to the value and advantages of larger, 4000 size reels, at great length in their online content. Just saying.....Originally Posted by JJohnSind
The DSR is a drop shot rod. Used for another technique, a size 4000 reel might be considered useful. For dropshotting, I use a 2500 size Vanford that is light and has a spool big enough to be easy to use.
For my own sanity we are talking about a drop shot rod. Usually the baits are dropped or short casted from the boat. Large size or large spool reels don't even come in to play.
However if you are not using it for dropping than I could see the advantage of a larger spool for casting and dragging a bait.
Not saying that there’s an absolute right or wrong way, people can certainly make their own choice. I wouldn’t say 2 references out of the total number of pros out there (and other just as qualified serious fishermen) make it lean right though. My guess is the 2500 & 3000 is the most popular choice (for bass fishing). Also, keep in mind, the Certate is a significantly higher quality spinning reel. It’s drag is going to be significantly better (in larger and smaller reel sizes) than $250 reels, much less anything below that.
I’ve tried the larger reels, just too unbalanced for me and if you’re not extra careful, you can easily over tighten the drag. Didn’t Brandon recently have enough fish on to win a tournament but lost an unGodly amount of fish? (Not being argumentative, just trying to be funny). :)
I will say, sometimes pros are an outlier in their equipment preferences. They fish so much compared to the average guy it can change things. I remember when Clunn said he only used 7' heavy rods for every technique. While a guy like Clunn could make that work, it would be tough for the average guy to do the same without excessive breakoffs and difficulty casting.
I do think the amount of guys going up to a 4000 reel seems to be increasing. I can understand it when using pure flourocarbon, but don't really get it with braid to leader. I think 2500-3000 just feels better balanced on most rods generally.
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I do a ton of dropshotting smallies on the Great Lakes with the NRX+ 822 and because the rod is so light the key is to match it with a light reel. I think most light 2500, or maybe up to 3000 size lightweight reels are a perfect match. A larger reel can carry more line, but I have no idea why u would want extra line capacity over what a typical 2500 series reel can carry. This rod in my opinion is amazing for vertical dropshot applications and maybe medium distance casting. I just don’t think it’s a powerful enough rod for making super long bomb casts… and hence no need for huge line capacity. I use this rod for 1/4 or 3/8oz dropshot weights. But if I need 1/2oz or 5/8oz weights for deeper water or river current, I use my St Croix Legend Xtreme medium action rod. It has more power for hooksets if I ever need to make super long casts, or in deeper water over say 25’. My point is that I just don’t see the need to put a big reel on this rod with a bunch of extra line that has no use.
That is something I guess I thought was more understood/obvious. Today's 4000 reels don't just come with deep spools. The reels I am talking about, and the reels being used by BP, JD, Fieder and others, are shallow spool reels. These shallow spool reels are part of the reason that line management is so much better with bigger reels. Another reason drag surface is better. The shallow spool 4000 reels only hold the amount of line you could put on a 2000 to 2500 size reel. I get that the concept, who wants to put 300 yards of line on a spinning reel used for drop shotting, but that is not what is happening when you choose the right 4000 size reel. Again, today's 4000 size reels aren't surf casting reels. They are fishing tools built to give anglers the best performance when using a spinning reel, no matter the technique. And they weigh less than what 2500 size reels used to weigh. The amount of line is not a factor when using 4000 size reels if you choose a shallow spool, which is why I often buy all my spinning reel from the Japanese market, as they have tons of shallow spool options compared to the US spinning reel market.
I think he caught enough to win his second Angler of The Year...... On the heels of Fieder winning Angler of the Year, who is another 4000 size spinning reel guy.....
Last edited by MainelySmallmouth; 12-12-2022 at 08:28 AM.
You know I appreciate your perspective on all things fishing, but isn't there an argument to be made when video game drop shot fishing for big fish with light line that line management and drag performance are two extremely important elements of the reel you have on your rod? Line coils get worse the smaller your arbor and drag performance on a smaller arbor reel is not as good as the drag performance on a larger arbor reel. So regardless of the technique, when you are light line fishing, stacking all advantages in your favor to land every fish you hook is best, right? I admit that 3000 shallow spool reel is better than a 2000 or 2500 reel, but when going out and spending tons of money on high end technique specific rods, why not put the best reel possible on each rod. Thoughts?
Thanks MainelySmallmouth for explanation of spool depth. I guess my main point was the importance of putting a really light reel on a super light rod. And to be honest I land 95% of my dropshot fish with a Shimano Vanford on this rod so for me that works. I am sure there are better and maybe lighter reels out there, I just don’t see how I could get much better with them then my current landing rate.
Not trying to say anyone's right or wrong since it's all about what works for each of us. But both Taku Ito and Chris Johnston use 2500 size reels (Stella, Ballistic respectively) for dropshotting and I consider them much better smallmouth fishermen than BP or Feider. Me personally, I agree about the matching the reel spool diameter to the location and diameter of the stripper guide on your spinning rods since that varies considerably more than baitcasting rods. There's plenty of videos out there that demonstrate the differences, mostly when the whole microwave guide thing was a big deal
https://bassblaster.rocks/how-taku-i...lawrence-elite
https://bassblaster.rocks/how-chris-...lawrence-elite
Personally I think some of these pros took what might've been true early in their careers or even hearsay from older generations and stuck with it. No harm for what they do, but certainly not optimizing on the tackle we have today.
You can look at the Japanese pros and the in-house Shimano/Daiwa pros who test their rods and reels, not a single one is using 4k sized spinners on their freshwater rods.
There's finesse and then there's finesse - how many models of UL-L+ bass spinning rods in their JDM lines? How many variations of 2000 - 2500 reels do they offer? The answer is dozens.
What does Brandon and Josh do with their 4k reels - heavier DS/swimbaits/maybe a ned here and there. You can use a surf reel and do those things just fine. Try throwing a nose hooked 3" i shad on 4lb fluoro with a 4k arbor on a 6'3UL bass rod and lose 30% casting distance instantly.
I fish nose hooked 3" Jackall Cross Tail Shads all the time on 6 lb test, no problem at all casting. I guarantee I can cast just as far as you, if not further, with that exact setup on a 4000 size reel. You use your 2500 and I will use my 4000, and I guarantee casting distance for me will not be an issue. Reel size and line weight are not the driver the way rod power and action are (loading the rod to throw the weights in question) when it comes to casting distance.... What is the best way to prove the point?
Unfortunately, the only way to prove a point among disagreeing positions is in person. Luckily, this isn’t a right or wrong thing, just what you think works for you. As a tournament fishermen, I pay attention to what others are doing (or preaching), but experiment for myself to see if there are any advantages I can gain. Tournament fishermen tend to be greedy and will overdo things.. stiffer rods, bigger reels, heavier lines (funny how guys will use 30lb line to try and catch 4 lb bass), etc. They just don’t want to leave anything to chance. I have tried 2000, 2500, 3000, and 3500 reels personally, to try and see what will help me catch more fish. I have also tried a vast amount of price points (from $60 to $860). 2500 works best for me, and have not failed me in any tournament. 3000’s are typically 2500’s with bigger spools and I went that route for a while (an advantage with monofilament). Of course, some are going to think that if 3000 is better than 2500, then maybe 3500 would be better, or maybe just go to 4000. Tournament fishermen greed mentality - there is a point of diminishing returns and I discovered those for myself by simply through trial and error. I really never needed a pro’s endorsement to validate what I found out works best for me.
With the popularity of braid, the bigger diameter spools are no longer needed (from my experience). You are even seeing trends of the reel sizes getting smaller, for each number designation.
WEIGHT is a big deal for me. I feel lighter is more sensitive, lighter is less fatiguing, and lighter is more enjoyable. I custom build 3 1/2 ounce (or less) spinning rods for myself and they ain’t gonna match 4000 reels in any conceivable way I want to fish, but if someone else likes it for themselves it’s no skin off my back. Friends that have asked me for my advice, I simply just share my experiences… which is how this thread started. I don’t think anybody thinks you’re crazy for liking 4000 sized reels or wants to challenge you, it just simply seems 2500 or 3000 is the popular consensus.
Its a shame we all aren’t located closer to each other, it’d be fun to fish together and exchange outfits and learn something from each other’s equipment choices. I have not personally tried 4000, but 3500 was way overkill - for MY purposes. I wouldn’t be upset if that were the choice for someone else,
Last edited by JJohnSind; 12-09-2022 at 10:39 PM.
A $750 Stella 2500 weighs exactly the same as a $200 Tatula LT 4000. They are both 7.4 oz reels. Higher price does not mean less weight and smaller size does not necessarily mean less weight when mixing makes and brands. You need to look at the specs. This thread is the first time I have heard someone make the claim that a smaller reel can cast further than a larger reel. Smallmouth hair jig anglers are fanatics about long casts, and they preach size 4000. I would need to see it to believe it.
Throw in the $859.99 retail 22 Daiwa Exist LT where the 2500 weighs in at an incredible 5.6oz. and overall weight does correlate a bit more with cost. Now, this reel doesn't play well with something like the Daiwa Steez AGS 76MML, but on the Steez AGS 71ML, it feels incredible. I have a Daiwa Certate LT 3000C-XH on my 76MML and using 10# YGK SS112 sinking braid, I'd happily play the casting distance game... I've tried some of the 4K sized reels on my freshwater spinning rods, and I've found that my comfort limit stops at 3000 sized offerings. Fortunately, everyone has the opportunity to choose what works best for them.
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Let me ask you this - is there a limit to spool dia that would adversely affect distance? If there's an 8k reel that weighs 7oz, would that be the logical upgrade in your universe?
That’s a reduction, though. The claim isn’t as black & white as “smaller reel = longer casts”. It’s the fact that large spool diameters (i.e. on a 4000 reel) PLUS low and small stripper guides lead to shorter casts (because the large coils are getting slowed down as they enter the small-diameter stripper guide. The fact that that produces shorter casts is simple physics.
When I stand a NRX 822 DSR (which is the rod this thread is about) next to a Steez 761MML, the DSR’s stripper guide is noticeably closer to the reel, and it is smaller in diameter than the Steez guide, as well. I wouldn’t want a large reel on that DSR for all the reasons discussed. But I might add one to the 761MML. (I didn’t, I’m running 2500 Stellas - but the configuration of the 761, which smallie guys love for a reason, makes a larger reel at least possible.)
Case in point: here’s a comparison of a Trika 7’0” ML (on the left) and an 822 DSR (on the right). The Trika’s stripper guide is noticeably smaller. It’s higher up (= further from the reel, which produces the line coil, but also way smaller. I’m running a 22 Stella Exists on the Trika get less friction as the line goes through the first guide. The 822 has an Excense A 3000 on it because the diameter of the first guide is larger.
Sure, these are micro optimizations, and I’m not a fanatic about casting distance. But it’s certainly true that too-big reels on finesse rods (with small-diameter stripper guides) can reduce casting distance.
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