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  1. #1
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    Are there any 24v lithium batteries for Arizona?

    I have my boat dry docked locally at the lake with the charger on for the lead acid batteries. I was thinking of switching to a single 24v LiIon for the Ultrex 24v motor to save space and weight. From everything I read, the max charging temperature would be 114 degrees. This would be too low for some of the hot summer days in the Phoenix area when the battery compartment could reach 118+. Any suggestions?
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  2. Electrical/Wiring/Trolling Motors Moderator CatFan's Avatar
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    #2
    The BMS on a quality battery will prevent charging when the battery is too hot, then allow it to charge at night.
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  3. BBC SPONSOR/ Shallow Water Anchors Moderator
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    #3
    Our Impulse lithiums are good to 130 .. give me a call

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KandKKustomz View Post
    Our Impulse lithiums are good to 130 .. give me a call
    I called Impulse and talked to the engineer. 140 is the discharge temperature max. 113 is the storage and operating temp max.

    Charge Temp. 32°F to 113°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity
    Discharge Temp. -4°F to 140°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity
    Storage Temp. 32°F to 113°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity

    Is your battery a special build? Can you send me a data sheet?
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  6. BBC SPONSOR/ Shallow Water Anchors Moderator
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jamokebob View Post
    I called Impulse and talked to the engineer. 140 is the discharge temperature max. 113 is the storage and operating temp max.

    Charge Temp. 32°F to 113°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity
    Discharge Temp. -4°F to 140°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity
    Storage Temp. 32°F to 113°F @60 ±25% Relative Humidity

    Is your battery a special build? Can you send me a data sheet?
    This is correct I missed you were talking charge max temp . Most people are concerened with max discharge temp not charge max temp. Most boats are charged in a garage or building with noticible cooler temps also charged overnight with cooler temps being present. Your boat in the garage over night or just overnight is above 114 in the Bilge Im finding that hard to believe?

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KandKKustomz View Post
    This is correct I missed you were talking charge max temp . Most people are concerened with max discharge temp not charge max temp. Most boats are charged in a garage or building with noticible cooler temps also charged overnight with cooler temps being present. Your boat in the garage over night or just overnight is above 114 in the Bilge Im finding that hard to believe?
    As I said in my initial post, my boat is dry docked at the lake. It is put on the charger in the dry dock parking area after fishing all day. If i get off the lake in the summer early afternoon, it could be 115+ outside and even hotter in the battery conpartment on the boat. I may not return to the lake for several weeks.
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  8. BBC SPONSOR/ Shallow Water Anchors Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamokebob View Post
    As I said in my initial post, my boat is dry docked at the lake. It is put on the charger in the dry dock parking area after fishing all day. If i get off the lake in the summer early afternoon, it could be 115+ outside and even hotter in the battery conpartment on the boat. I may not return to the lake for several weeks.
    rough situation... only real way to know if the temp rating is conservative would be actually try it.

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    #9
    The internal temperature of the battery is where the temperature that matters. Without a way to check that temperature you cant be sure. You will have to rely on the BMS and the charger temp shutoff. If it were me I would monitor a charge cycle at least once before I left it hooked up and plugged in for a week or more. JMO Bob
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  10. Member 86 inches's Avatar
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    If you have easy access to the battery, take the lithium home with you to charge it. You could easily make a quick disconnect in the wiring. Mount the battery with a buckle strap. Easy.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 86 inches View Post
    If you have easy access to the battery, take the lithium home with you to charge it. You could easily make a quick disconnect in the wiring. Mount the battery with a buckle strap. Easy.
    Already thought of that initially. Can't do it. Any solution would have to be with the battery on the boat. I've come to the conclusion that the Lithium technology temperature range itself will limit me no matter what manufacturer I use. Too bad there are no 24v AGM batteries.
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  12. Electrical/Wiring/Trolling Motors Moderator CatFan's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jamokebob View Post
    Already thought of that initially. Can't do it. Any solution would have to be with the battery on the boat. I've come to the conclusion that the Lithium technology temperature range itself will limit me no matter what manufacturer I use. Too bad there are no 24v AGM batteries.
    You don’t have an issue. The battery will charge at night when it’s cool. You are overthinking it. Get a good battery (Hint: Look at the responders to this thread), plug it in and it will charge fine.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan View Post
    You don’t have an issue. The battery will charge at night when it’s cool. You are overthinking it. Get a good battery (Hint: Look at the responders to this thread), plug it in and it will charge fine.
    Indeed. That's using your head.

  14. Member 86 inches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan View Post
    You don’t have an issue. The battery will charge at night when it’s cool. You are overthinking it. Get a good battery (Hint: Look at the responders to this thread), plug it in and it will charge fine.
    LOL. You said, "cool". Walk outside in the late evening or early morning hours in July and you will feel like you are standing in front of an open oven door.

    I'm sure lots of fisherman in AZ use lithiums. I've measured my morning temps in my west facing garage and I've seen well over a hundred. It is what it is. It's hot in the summer and that's hard on all batteries.

    To the OP, if you're storing it at Roosey it won't be so bad. Certainly, not near the overnight temps that you get in the valley. I hope you at least have covered storage.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 86 inches View Post
    LOL. You said, "cool". Walk outside in the late evening or early morning hours in July and you will feel like you are standing in front of an open oven door.

    I'm sure lots of fisherman in AZ use lithiums. I've measured my morning temps in my west facing garage and I've seen well over a hundred. It is what it is. It's hot in the summer and that's hard on all batteries.

    To the OP, if you're storing it at Roosey it won't be so bad. Certainly, not near the overnight temps that you get in the valley. I hope you at least have covered storage.
    Stored at Bartlett. Not covered storage but hve a boat cover which probably will make the battery area hotter.
    I'm waiting for an answer to some questions from Battle Born batteries. Their data sheet says it is OK to charge up to 135 degrees. Thats the only battery that I've seen the higher charging spec in writing. I'm also thinking of putting a timer on the 120v line and charge only at night. Waiting to hear on the timer specs also.
    Catfan, i'm not over thinking it. I just want a margin of safety so as not to burn up my boat. Lithium can be dangerous even with a managment circuit.
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  16. BBC SPONSOR/ Shallow Water Anchors Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamokebob View Post
    Stored at Bartlett. Not covered storage but hve a boat cover which probably will make the battery area hotter.
    I'm waiting for an answer to some questions from Battle Born batteries. Their data sheet says it is OK to charge up to 135 degrees. Thats the only battery that I've seen the higher charging spec in writing. I'm also thinking of putting a timer on the 120v line and charge only at night. Waiting to hear on the timer specs also.
    Catfan, i'm not over thinking it. I just want a margin of safety so as not to burn up my boat. Lithium can be dangerous even with a managment circuit.
    lithium Ion can be dangerous lithium iron phosphate is no danger.. I too think slightly overthinking it as I cant believe the internal core temp would be over 100 anywhere in the evening a good lithium with bluetooth would confirm and misinformed about battery chemistry. Maybe find some people around you and ask if issues. Sounds like you live in the hottest GPS location on earth then if it's 115 in evening.

  17. Member 86 inches's Avatar
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    #17
    I don't know if it is a problem or not but what you guys that don't live here are missing is that before the sun goes down, it very well could be 150 inside his bilge if his boat is wrapped with a cover sitting in the sun. How long it takes to drop into a decent range. Night time temps stay very high until early in the morning. How much charging time is left.
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  18. Electrical/Wiring/Trolling Motors Moderator CatFan's Avatar
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 86 inches View Post
    I don't know if it is a problem or not but what you guys that don't live here are missing is that before the sun goes down, it very well could be 150 inside his bilge if his boat is wrapped with a cover sitting in the sun. How long it takes to drop into a decent range. Night time temps stay very high until early in the morning. How much charging time is left.
    With the hull of the boat in contact with the water, it will cool fairly quickly. It’s very difficult to heat or cool the cabin of a boat to a temperature significantly different than the water temperature, and the compartment in a bass boat is the same situation.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan View Post
    With the hull of the boat in contact with the water, it will cool fairly quickly. It’s very difficult to heat or cool the cabin of a boat to a temperature significantly different than the water temperature, and the compartment in a bass boat is the same situation.
    The hull is not in contact with the water when it is charging. It is dry docked!
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    #20
    Just to close the loop on this I spoke with an engineer at Battle Born Lithium Batteries. I was convinced that the Phoenix extreme summer temperatures will not cause any issues due to 3 or 4 protection schemes built into the battery as well as the recommended charger. On top of that, if I add a timer to the circuit to only charge overnight, that will be another layer of protection. This is what I decided to go with:
    https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...h-24v-battery/
    Blue Smart IP67 Charger 24/12 120V NEMA 5-15 | Battle Born Batteries
    https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ...68428369&psc=1Amazon.com: Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor :
    \Electronics

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