New to rod building...need some advice on guide kits

[avidbasser]

Recently got my hands on some rod building gear and I'm starting to build up stock in guides, blanks, etc. so I can start to build for fun.

I'm looking at buying guide kits, specifically Fuji, but can't seem to get the details I need to understand which guide kit to buy.

What I'm trying to build...

Jerkbait rod 6'8+ - 7'
Medium size guides (not the micro - mini , but not the big guides, either)

What size / set / etc...should I be looking at?

These would be for myself and one as a gift so I'm looking for good guides that can stand up to all line types in freshwater.

Thanks in advance.

[ECobb91]

If you wanna stay with Fuji, then I’d look into the KW series. A little more expensive than the Concepts but I like the overall look better. below is a link to the Fuji KR Concept sheet to help with guide sizing.

https://www.fujitackle.eu/files/fuji_kr_concept.pdf

I’ve only built one casting rod so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I did a lot of research and reading before I built mine. I built a finesse jig/light Texas rig rod on a NFC XRay SJ736 blank, Fuji ECS reel seat, CRB butt and rear grips, Fuji SiC KW casting guides. My guide train was size 10, 6, 5 belly (2) then 5 for running guides. I strayed from the chart because I felt that the 6 reduction guide would be more beneficial without adding much in terms of weight. If I had to change anything, I would use 5.5s for the belly and running guides because the leader knot does catch sometimes especially when pitching (30lb braid to 12/15lb leader, Alberto knot).

if you wanted a little larger guides then maybe 12, 8, 6 belly, to 6 running guides. If it’s a medium action rod, I’d try 3 belly guides for added support. Honestly after you build it, you will figure out what you should’ve done differently to set it up exactly how you want. It all comes down to experience and each build will become better than the previous.

Fazlite is fairly new, and supposedly a step below Alconite but are better than the standard rings.
Alconite is the best bang for your buck. very cost effective but perform great.
SiC rings are the step up from Alconites and most don’t see any advantage over Alconite. I used them because I’m a believer in using the best materials within the allowable budget.

[willwork4fish]

I typically would use the following for a build like that, all Fuji Alconites...CCKWAG8, CCKWAG7, CCKTAG6, CCKTAG5.5s out to the tip (6-8 of them depending on the length and power of your rod) and then a Fuji 5.5 ring "F" top with whatever tube size you need for the blank.

I don't typically use the belly guides anymore, for regular bass applications I don't think there's a need for them.

You can swap out the CCKWAG7 for a CCKTAG7 if you only want one double foot. Doesn't really matter they'll fish the same.

[avidbasser]

Awesome! Thanks gents!

This helps for sure.

[avidbasser]

PS: I'm not opposed to other brands...but I've heard and see many of the top rod builders using Fuji so there's got to be a reason for that.

[Spoonplugger1]

Avidbasser, First off, no one makes a guide of any size or type that won't easily take any fishing load on any bass rod, under any condition that you will ever see and do a load many times heavier. Where the smallest, lightest guides are on your rod's tip there is in no way, on any bass rod, more than a pound of load on those guides my MH Carolina rig rod has 0.2 lbs of load, heaviest load on any one guide in the butt 3.9 lbs., as the rod is loaded and then blew up, the tip will point directly at the fish, or any other load negating any real load on them. Now the real info you need those little light guides at the tip we are talking about will no matter which major manufacturer makes it will take at least 8 lbs. of load (2 mm guide) and as much as 25 lbs (6 mm fly style) without destroying the guide. A rod I built in 1985 to jig wrecks in Florida, an all carbon Kunan prototype, is now used for sturgeon fishing for fish to 10 ft. that weigh hundreds of pounds, in heavy current that needs sometimes 3 lbs. of lead to find bottom, using 80 lb. braid. The guides are Fuji SV aluminum oxide guides, but I have no doubt other brands would also have worked.
I'd spend my time worrying about more important things, this is a Ford vs Dodge vs Chevy decision.

[willwork4fish]

PS: I'm not opposed to other brands...but I've heard and see many of the top rod builders using Fuji so there's got to be a reason for that.

Honestly Fuji Alconites are the best bang for the buck you will find. Plenty light especially with the sizes we use for bass and the rings hold up to braid no problem and just have good overall durability. I've built with SiC and Torzite and IMO you're just paying more for no real discernable performance gain. Others will certainly have different opinions.

[apdriver]

I’ve been using the LZR guides from Mudhole. They’re a really nice guide at a good price point that comes in 3 colors and they also have a kit. The running guides are a 5 on the light duty kit and prefer 5.5’s if I’m going braid to flouro. In that case I just call and order as they will sell them separately also. Be sure and use a locking wrap for those single foot guides. Save you some trouble later on. I think the rings are Alconite.

[avidbasser]

You guys rock!

I'm starting to order and build up stock of what I need.

My build plan is on a Rainshadow blank 6'8" M, split grip cork, exposed reel seat (not the 2 piece), and black / silver thread.

I'll post pictures when it starts to progress. I'm spending more time watching videos to learn this stuff before I start laying down epoxy / thread.

[Spoonplugger1]

No one makes a ceramic guide that will not hold up to braid, there never was a ceramic guide that wouldn't hold up to braid. Braid is not now and never has ever had an abrasive component that could damage a ceramic ring. Alconite is aluminum oxide, and excellent version of the material, but still aluminum oxide.

[willwork4fish]

No one makes a ceramic guide that will not hold up to braid, there never was a ceramic guide that wouldn't hold up to braid. Braid is not now and never has ever had an abrasive component that could damage a ceramic ring. Alconite is aluminum oxide, and excellent version of the material, but still aluminum oxide.

That could certainly be true, guess I've never really looked into it. I've never used anything "lower quality" than Alconite so I've never used a guide that had problems with braid. I would assume there must be some material in the past that didn't hold up well as it's certainly a common thought that some guide materials don't hold up. Maybe it's just an old wives tale. Could also be that some of the older ceramics were more prone to chips and braid is more prone to wear/brake with a sharp edge.

Regardless I still feel like Alconites are a great guide at a good price. One of those if it ain't broke situations. I'd rather spend the extra money on blanks and such.

[DrewFlu33]

That could certainly be true, guess I've never really looked into it. I've never used anything "lower quality" than Alconite so I've never used a guide that had problems with braid. I would assume there must be some material in the past that didn't hold up well as it's certainly a common thought that some guide materials don't hold up. Maybe it's just an old wives tale. Could also be that some of the older ceramics were more prone to chips and braid is more prone to wear/brake with a sharp edge.

Regardless I still feel like Alconites are a great guide at a good price. One of those if it ain't broke situations. I'd rather spend the extra money on blanks and such.

This is what I think it is. In general, I think if ceramic gets damaged, it's just going to have a sharp edge. Then the braid pops like it was cut with scissors.

On a related note: This probably goes for just about everything in fishing, but one thing that sticks out to me is how varied the experiences are of different with different guides. Granting that Alconites are far and away the most commonly used: All three of the instances I've encountered with cracked inserts that cut my line were with Alconite guides. Specifically they were the tip tops. To be fair, I don't think the fishing line caused it or that it just happened from normal wear and tear. I'm certain they were cracked from impact, likely from getting shoved into the rod locker. Maybe not a fair critique to make.

Even so, because inserts cracking or popping out is something that happens from time to time, I always try to go with guides without inserts. The added benefit is that no inserts means they're lighter, too. For me, that's meant a whole lot of Airwaves over the last several years. I've had great luck with them, they're priced really reasonably, there's no hunting around for individual guides only to find out one is out of stock, and they're super light. I know this isn't the path everyone wants to take, but I've never had the first issue using guides without inserts. That's using fluoro or braid, ultra thin to heavy duty, over several years on numerous rods. That includes a bunch of ice fishing rods I've stuck fly guides on. Even ripping 0.10 mm braid through them with a 15 lb laker on the other end, no damage at all.