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  1. #1
    Humminbird Moderator SLYDoggie's Avatar
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    Question 16V Lithium Batteries for Solix/Apex/Mega Live/Mega 360... Improved Imaging?

    I just saw a post on Fakebook claiming that using a dedicated 16V Lithium battery for your fishing electronics would provide the following:


    1. Improved Clarity
    2. Improved Depth
    3. Improved Definition
    4. Improved Brightness
    5. 20% to 30% better efficiency than 12V
    6. Safe on all major electronics Brands


    Although Humminbird does say that the control heads are compatible with 10.8V to 20V, I would love to see anybody try to reliably run an Apex or Solix control head on 10.8 volts... Compatible and optimal are two completely different things.

    Although there was this thread ( http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=1162936 ) on BBC back in January of this year, there weren't any real testimonies as to whether any of this would be true in the Humminbird world.

    I'm really curious if anybody has used 16V with Humminbird Apex, Solix, Mega Live, and Mega 360 to know if there was actually any discernible difference. As I also understand it, you would need new chargers for the 16V Lithium Batteries since the 12V Lithium chargers wouldn't work with them.

    If I thought that there were real world improvements to be had by using 16V, I'd be all over it. I would just like to have some real world feedback from people who have gone down that path.
    ---> Regards, Steve Yarbrough (AKA: SLYDoggieTN on YouTube)
    • Apex 19/16/13, Mega 360, and Mega Live
    • Minn Kota Ulterra Quest Trolling Motor
    • (2) Cannon Optimum Bluetooth Downriggers
    • Impulse Lithium Batteries... 36V 60AH for Trolling Motor, (2) 12V 120AH for Cranking & Electronics, 12V 60AH for Downriggers


  2. Member opaleski's Avatar
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    #2
    I have used a 20 volt DeWalt battery, and it works fine.

  3. Member
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    #3
    I call bullshit for those claims. Electronics inside the sonar are not using supply voltage directly. Instead they have circuits which drops the voltage to the level they are actually using (for prosessor that can be even around 1 volt). So I don't see any way how the higher input voltage could have such huge affect to image quality

  4. Member
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    #4
    There is no harm to 16 volts for the HB units. Well within spec’s. However the only benefit would be if your wiring is so bad an output from the battery does not get enough voltage to your units with conventional battery voltages. My main concern is the battery chemistry. There are different rules for charging, different temperature limits. More concern for lower runaway temperatures.
    IIRC at least one of these brands has a chemistry containing Cobalt which is involved with child and slave labor in several countries. But like I said, no harm to your units from higher voltage. JMO Bob
    Tell me where has a slow movin' once quick draw outlaw got to go

  5. Member
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nabbster View Post
    I call bullshit for those claims. Electronics inside the sonar are not using supply voltage directly. Instead they have circuits which drops the voltage to the level they are actually using (for prosessor that can be even around 1 volt). So I don't see any way how the higher input voltage could have such huge affect to image quality
    Yep this, the output voltage to the software and transducer components is 12v or less. The only time voltage matters is if it drops below 12v.

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    #6
    I run 16 volts on both Mega Live and Livescope. It doesn't improve the image any. Read similar claims about 16 volts and LS.
    I really love my little lithium batteries. I can run them all day and not be concerned about draining my cracking battery.

  7. Humminbird Moderator SLYDoggie's Avatar
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by opaleski View Post
    I have used a 20 volt DeWalt battery, and it works fine.
    Working "fine" really isn't my question. I realize that up to 20V is within specs. I'm really wondering if the claims have any foundation in real life in the Humminbird world. Did you notice any difference in using 12V vs the 20V?
    ---> Regards, Steve Yarbrough (AKA: SLYDoggieTN on YouTube)
    • Apex 19/16/13, Mega 360, and Mega Live
    • Minn Kota Ulterra Quest Trolling Motor
    • (2) Cannon Optimum Bluetooth Downriggers
    • Impulse Lithium Batteries... 36V 60AH for Trolling Motor, (2) 12V 120AH for Cranking & Electronics, 12V 60AH for Downriggers


  8. Member
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    #8
    Here's my experiment. Not scientific, but real world, I think.

    I have tried not starting my graphs (1 - Helix 10, 1 - Helix 12) with the motor not running (200 SHO), and only off battery power. Look good.

    Then I've tried starting them with the motor running with full alternator output. Looks the same.

    Long hard day. Voltage in low 12's. Start the Yamaha, voltage mid 13's. Looks the same. Turn 'em off, then back on. Looks the same.

    I put my Helix 10 on my jon bot sometimes. Cheap batteries, typically not maintained very well. Usual voltage in the 11's. Still works just fine.

    I'm inclined to agree with Nabbster on this BS claim.

    I think all the guys that claim high voltage helps your display must have battery sponsors.
    Last edited by MCIPinkie; 06-18-2022 at 05:10 PM. Reason: typo

  9. Humminbird Moderator SLYDoggie's Avatar
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    #9
    Thanks to all who have provided input so far. Still hoping for somebody who has seen a significant difference to determine why that might be.

    At this point, I'm still on the BS side of the fence.
    ---> Regards, Steve Yarbrough (AKA: SLYDoggieTN on YouTube)
    • Apex 19/16/13, Mega 360, and Mega Live
    • Minn Kota Ulterra Quest Trolling Motor
    • (2) Cannon Optimum Bluetooth Downriggers
    • Impulse Lithium Batteries... 36V 60AH for Trolling Motor, (2) 12V 120AH for Cranking & Electronics, 12V 60AH for Downriggers


  10. USAF and DOD retired Phoenix Jim's Avatar
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    #10
    Steve, I know the guy who gave you that info. He is in my area and I bought a powerhouse lithium and charger from him and getting it installed next week. I don't buy all the info he provided either such as more brightness, clarity, etc but I’m, like others, more interested in a dedicated battery for my electronics since I run three solix units, mega live and 360. Right now with my current setup thats a lot of juice to run my electronics, livewells, and motor. My X2 battery does well as it is new but I see my voltage dropping throughout the day running all that. Regardless I'm looking forward to having the lithium installed next week and will provide an update on here
    2018 Phoenix 920 Pro XP

  11. Member Crabnbass's Avatar
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    #11
    I've always been skeptical of the voltage = better clarity statement. There might be images comparing <12 volts vs. >12volts out there, but I haven't seen them. If anybody has any real world tests done, please post them because I am genuinely curious.

  12. Humminbird Moderator SLYDoggie's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Jim View Post
    Steve, I know the guy who gave you that info. He is in my area and I bought a powerhouse lithium and charger from him and getting it installed next week. I don't buy all the info he provided either such as more brightness, clarity, etc but I’m, like others, more interested in a dedicated battery for my electronics since I run three solix units, mega live and 360. Right now with my current setup thats a lot of juice to run my electronics, livewells, and motor. My X2 battery does well as it is new but I see my voltage dropping throughout the day running all that. Regardless I'm looking forward to having the lithium installed next week and will provide an update on here
    I look forward to your report. I do buy the fact that 16V will be more efficient and give you more hours of usage. I think the units might also run cooler as well. It's the imaging improvement claims that have me really skeptical.
    ---> Regards, Steve Yarbrough (AKA: SLYDoggieTN on YouTube)
    • Apex 19/16/13, Mega 360, and Mega Live
    • Minn Kota Ulterra Quest Trolling Motor
    • (2) Cannon Optimum Bluetooth Downriggers
    • Impulse Lithium Batteries... 36V 60AH for Trolling Motor, (2) 12V 120AH for Cranking & Electronics, 12V 60AH for Downriggers


  13. Member
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    #13
    Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter at all what the input voltage is (as long as it's high enough) because sonar internals will always drop the voltage to desired levels. So the voltage after the power regulation circuit is exactly the same if you use 12V or 16V battery. Electronic components inside sonar (or any electronic devices) are designed for certain input voltage and if voltage differs a lot, you either fry the component or it doesn't operate correctly. But if you have for example input voltage of 7V, your sonar will not work as the power supply part of the sonar, cannot create those desired voltages for sonar to operate properly.

    And depending of what kind of regulation circuits are used, efficiency with higher voltage can be much worse than with lower voltage as regulator doesn't have to drop voltage that much if the desired voltage is close to available battery voltage. But I'm sure all sonar manufacturers uses internal power supplies where that is not the problem.

    But of sonar runtime can be higher with 16V battery as it can contain more energy. But voltage is not meaningful parameter to use for runtime comparisons/asumptions. For that you should rather use Wh (watt-hour) as that directly tells how much power you can get from the battery.

    All that said, using higher voltage batteries will usually work fine as long as the voltage is inside manufacturers input voltage specification. But there can be interesting exceptions in some cases. For example I was told that I will void my warranty if I use lithium battery with my Minnkota motor. Their justification for that was the different voltage drop characteristics between lead and lithium batteries. Lithium battery will hold nominal voltage much longer than lead battery and I was told that Minnkota motor was not designed for using higher voltage for long periods of time. Interesting claim... :D

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    #14

    12 volt and 16

    Quote Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
    I look forward to your report. I do buy the fact that 16V will be more efficient and give you more hours of usage. I think the units might also run cooler as well. It's the imaging improvement claims that have me really skeptical.
    4 of my friends run 16 volt to power livescope. I have a 12 volt running a helix 10 for mega live helix 9 for front graph and a ethernet box that the live is into. I see absolutly no differance in clarity ect. same to my eyes im running 10 gauge they are running 8 why? spend your money how you want . theres no differance


  15. Member
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    #16
    I’ve been in a boat with it. No difference. Currently got a dedicated 12v lithium for just electronics and also can tell no difference there from running it on the cranking battery.