250ss and lithium batteries?

[ampdreamer1]

I know there are varying qualities in lithium batteries. Some can and some can't be used as a starting battery. All the companies that are clear about this have a middleman upping the prices. All lithium batteries come from China. It sucks but that's the facts. The problem with cutting out the middleman is communication on capabilities, but you can save a huge amount of money. I'm looking at a 200ah lithium battery to power all electronics and pumps but also as a starter battery. Looking at a pionergy battery for $669. Has anyone seen these or used one?I'm going to try to attach the specs. Sold on Amazon Screenshot_20220128-141702_eBay.jpg

[ampdreamer1]

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[striper joe]

Im follow this post.Im interested. You like your Suzuki. JUST turned 200hr. on mine.

[ampdreamer1]

I have had one season on it. Bought boat used. Not getting good feedback on the lithium batteries though. People talk about name brands and warranty rather than technical information. People like to think If it's not name brand and is cheaper it is garbage which is not always true.

[booter]

For a starting battery, I wouldn’t use it since it’s max current is 200 amps and I’d getting something that has a cranking draw of 800 amps minimum. That battery would work great for electronics and everything else and maybe you can get a small lead acid battery for starting and run everything else on that.

[ampdreamer1]

From what I've seen cca which you are probably referring to is different than continuous amps. Actually max amps are 600 for 5 sec to start a motor. Another guy with a 250 merc said his battery app said it was only pulling 283amps to start his motor and I would think the Suzuki would take less being a v6 vs a v8. A big name lithium battery manufacturer has a similar battery that clamps 300amps with a 5.sec draw and is claiming over 1000 cca

[ampdreamer1]

You actually can not get a real cca rating on a lithium battery. That test would melt a lithium battery. When a lithium battery manufacturer give cca ratings it is a comparable guesstimate

[booter]

From my experience with the two 250SS's that I've own, they seem to crank longer to start compared to the few Mercury's that I've had. I actually ended up going to the Lithium Pros 215 cranking battery because I would start getting random error codes with my Ionic battery once the battery below 70% and I tried starting my motor. Even though I had no issues with starting or my graphs shutting down, but I found it odd that the engine would some random codes that didn't correlate to anything. Hopefully going through and cleaning up all of the electrical connections and redoing some of the wiring will help. Keep us updated on what you do.

[Moonlighter]

As has been widely discussed, the Suzukis are very voltage/amp sensitive.

If they dont get what they expect, then the ecu will throw false error codes to start with and if it gets worse, you can expect the engine to start running badly, and eventually it wont run at all.

Whether the cause is poor or corroded connections or wiring, or batteries that are run down, failing, under-specified etc doesn’t matter, the result will be the same.

[eliteangler]

I am upgrading to lithium batteries now... I was doing some research and read conflicting posts about using a lithium battery on the 250SS as a cranking batt. The lithium battery dealer told me I would be fine using one as a cranking battery. I was about to buy one, but started thinking... "I wonder what Suzuki Marine has to say about this". So... yesterday I called Suzuki and asked them what their stance on it is. They told me that they DO NOT RECOMMEND using a lithium battery as a cranking battery. They said that the warranty wouldn't be voided, but a warranty claim involving the charging system on the engine could be denied if a lithium battery was used as the cranking battery. I ultimately decided that I would upgrade my trolling batts to lithium and use an AGM X2 for the cranking battery. My warranty expires in July next summer. Anybody out there that use lithium cranking batts have any charging system issues on their Suzuki?

[jboomer]

My dealership just did a video about lithium battery configurations. I put the link below. We've done a ton of research into this situation, working with our marine techs and with Lithium Pros.

Couple things we learned over the last year. Lithium batteries protect themselves (and your house) from bad situations with their power cells via a BMS (battery management system.) Basically a computer that makes sure the lithium cells don't get into a fault state that can cause damage and of course, large untamed infernos in the back of your boat. Like any computer system, they're not all created equal. You can buy, off the shelf, imported BMS systems which are fairly generic.

When using a lithium battery as a cranker, there seems to be multiple fault scenarios that can happen with voltage spikes, undercurrent situations, cold starts etc... During a fault situation, the BMS will kill power by disconnecting the ground terminal in the battery. This protects the battery, but if you're motor is running, pushing a bunch of current at WOT, that means something else in the boat must become the ground... usually the big metal object connected to the back of the boat.

Long story short, if the cranking battery goes into fault state and disconnects the ground terminal, the current surge back through the motor can fry sensors and ecus. Rumor is that Yamaha's crankshaft sensor falls victim to this, and when one goes out, they'll ask the tech if there's a lithium battery as the cranker. Not sure if they deny the warranty or not.

From what we gather, all outboards are subject to this issue. Not every event is a failure, but this is the cause of most the warranty issues around outboard manufacturers. Mercury was 100% absolute in their stance against lithium cranking batteries, but then Johnny launched Tracker Lithium and they magically changed their tune... JK.

[eliteangler]

My dealership just did a video about lithium battery configurations. I put the link below. We've done a ton of research into this situation, working with our marine techs and with Lithium Pros.

Couple things we learned over the last year. Lithium batteries protect themselves (and your house) from bad situations with their power cells via a BMS (battery management system.) Basically a computer that makes sure the lithium cells don't get into a fault state that can cause damage and of course, large untamed infernos in the back of your boat. Like any computer system, they're not all created equal. You can buy, off the shelf, imported BMS systems which are fairly generic.

When using a lithium battery as a cranker, there seems to be multiple fault scenarios that can happen with voltage spikes, undercurrent situations, cold starts etc... During a fault situation, the BMS will kill power by disconnecting the ground terminal in the battery. This protects the battery, but if you're motor is running, pushing a bunch of current at WOT, that means something else in the boat must become the ground... usually the big metal object connected to the back of the boat.

Long story short, if the cranking battery goes into fault state and disconnects the ground terminal, the current surge back through the motor can fry sensors and ecus. Rumor is that Yamaha's crankshaft sensor falls victim to this, and when one goes out, they'll ask the tech if there's a lithium battery as the cranker. Not sure if they deny the warranty or not.

From what we gather, all outboards are subject to this issue. Not every event is a failure, but this is the cause of most the warranty issues around outboard manufacturers. Mercury was 100% absolute in their stance against lithium cranking batteries, but then Johnny launched Tracker Lithium and they magically changed their tune... JK.

Thanks for the info! I decided to upgrade to lithium on my trolling bank only. I will use the AGM X2 for cranking and electronics. I may end up with another lithium to run accessories/electronics in the future depending on how it goes. I will report back with a new post on how the configuration performs for me.

[toporanger]

I have been running an ionic 125 for almost a year no issues. From what I understand, the info Jboomer posted is correct. But when I talked to Ionic and I want to say Monster, they both stated their BMS wont disconnect. Both manufacturers state that how they did it was proprietary, Im sure relion/mercury/bps would say the same thing.

Booter where were you seeing the codes?

you would also think that a lithium would be better if the motors are known to be very voltage/amp sensitive. I say that as one of the strengths of the lithiums is the consistent voltages and amps through the entire discharge vs conventional batteries.

[buddyclub]

I have also been running the ionic 125 for about a year with no issues what so ever. And my hole shot loves the lighter batteries.

[booter]

Booter where were you seeing the codes?

.

The alarms pop up on my C10 gauge and Lowrance Graph and quickly disappear. The fault codes don't last once the motor starts. I had the same issue as well when I was running an AGM battery.

[eliteangler]

That's interesting booter. Could it be a connection issue somewhere? Doubtful though since you said it happened with the AGM as well. Let us know if you get it panned out and what you found.

[SkidooSteve12]

I am upgrading to lithium batteries now... I was doing some research and read conflicting posts about using a lithium battery on the 250SS as a cranking batt. The lithium battery dealer told me I would be fine using one as a cranking battery. I was about to buy one, but started thinking... "I wonder what Suzuki Marine has to say about this". So... yesterday I called Suzuki and asked them what their stance on it is. They told me that they DO NOT RECOMMEND using a lithium battery as a cranking battery. They said that the warranty wouldn't be voided, but a warranty claim involving the charging system on the engine could be denied if a lithium battery was used as the cranking battery. I ultimately decided that I would upgrade my trolling batts to lithium and use an AGM X2 for the cranking battery. My warranty expires in July next summer. Anybody out there that use lithium cranking batts have any charging system issues on their Suzuki?

I got the same info a couple of months ago from my local Suzuki dealer that did some work on the new-to-me 2016 Suzuki 250SS, about what Suzuki Marine officially says about a lithium starting battery. I will be using an AGM starting battery and looking at lithiums just for electronics and for the trolling motor batteries.

[eliteangler]

I got the same info a couple of months ago from my local Suzuki dealer that did some work on the new-to-me 2016 Suzuki 250SS, about what Suzuki Marine officially says about a lithium starting battery. I will be using an AGM starting battery and looking at lithiums just for electronics and for the trolling motor batteries.

How are you liking the Suzy? I love mine!

[booter]

That's interesting booter. Could it be a connection issue somewhere? Doubtful though since you said it happened with the AGM as well. Let us know if you get it panned out and what you found.

It could be quite a few issues with this motor since it use to be Brandon Card's tournament boat. On my first Suzuki 250SS on my older Puma and when I was running an Ionic 125aH battery, I never had any alarms on that boat from what I can tell that popped up on my graph, but I didn't have the C10 gauge either, but was able to see faults through the graph. On my current Lynx with the Suzuki 250SS, it came with a group 31 Pro Guide AGM battery and had a history of random fault codes that I still get today. Plus I was having an issue with my live well timer panel resetting for my live wells and obviously Brandon was as well since he had manual switches under the console for the bilge, recirc, and aerator pumps.

Since then, I went through and cleaned up all of the connectors, ran bigger gauge wire from the battery to the terminal board and etc. That helped my issue with the live well timers resetting, but still hasn't eliminated the random fault codes that only seem to happen randomly throughout the day. However, my trim/tilt doesn't read correctly or at all and maybe that sensor has something to do with that. One of these days maybe I should try finding that sensor and see what's entailed to try and replace it since it would be nice to sort of know where my tilt/trim is vice eye balling it.

I wish that the 250SS was able to charge a house battery then I would consider running a smaller group 27/34 AGM/lead for cranking only and a lithium for my electronics/pumps.

[Moonlighter]

It could be quite a few issues with this motor since it use to be Brandon Card's tournament boat. On my first Suzuki 250SS on my older Puma and when I was running an Ionic 125aH battery, I never had any alarms on that boat from what I can tell that popped up on my graph, but I didn't have the C10 gauge either, but was able to see faults through the graph. On my current Lynx with the Suzuki 250SS, it came with a group 31 Pro Guide AGM battery and had a history of random fault codes that I still get today. Plus I was having an issue with my live well timer panel resetting for my live wells and obviously Brandon was as well since he had manual switches under the console for the bilge, recirc, and aerator pumps.

Since then, I went through and cleaned up all of the connectors, ran bigger gauge wire from the battery to the terminal board and etc. That helped my issue with the live well timers resetting, but still hasn't eliminated the random fault codes that only seem to happen randomly throughout the day. However, my trim/tilt doesn't read correctly or at all and maybe that sensor has something to do with that. One of these days maybe I should try finding that sensor and see what's entailed to try and replace it since it would be nice to sort of know where my tilt/trim is vice eye balling it.

I wish that the 250SS was able to charge a house battery then I would consider running a smaller group 27/34 AGM/lead for cranking only and a lithium for my electronics/pumps.

I cant recall whether we discussed this previously or not, but there were problems with some software versions of the Suzuki interface cables that, amongst other things, caused random false codes to be thrown.

Go into the C-10 menu, open the network menu, scroll down and select the Suzuki interface and open it. That will show a page where the software version is listed. Copy the version details down and report back. If its a bad version (3.5.0 was bad) then it can easily be flashed to run a more suitable version.

Also, many Suzukis can have an auxiliary charging lead fitted that is specifically designed to charge a house battery. Would be worth checking if the 250SS has this option.

The easy and effective alternative is to use a VSR between start and house batteries. Ive been using the BEP dual battery cluster for 13 years and it does the job perfectly: https://www.bepmarine.com/en/p/716-S...bution-Cluster