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  1. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #21
    In addition to replacing BOTH gaskets (powerhead AND tuner) at the same time:

    If the engine still does not achieve correct WOT RPM's and performance, try INTENTIONALLY installing a prop that is two (2) pitch points lower. Don't expect your speed to be great. We're simply trying to determine if the engine "can" spin up to the correct RPM's and hold there. If not, there may be internal problems.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by EuropeanAM View Post
    In addition to replacing BOTH gaskets (powerhead AND tuner) at the same time:

    If the engine still does not achieve correct WOT RPM's and performance, try INTENTIONALLY installing a prop that is two (2) pitch points lower. Don't expect your speed to be great. We're simply trying to determine if the engine "can" spin up to the correct RPM's and hold there. If not, there may be internal problems.
    I must’ve missed your reply. My condolences to you and your family. I will try and find a lower pitched prop and try that. The original problem is still there even after their work. Thanks for all of your time and advice!
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    #23
    Dragging this thread back out . Although the problem hasn’t been absent all this time. On September 9th I encountered what seems like a separate problem. A sputtering engine with a popping sound inside the cowling. Wouldn’t even get on plane. Took it in and the diagnosis was two bad coils. I’ve been out a few times since but haven’t run it hard. And it seemed THAT problem was fixed at least. Then yesterday, after proper warming, I was about 2 miles into my run when it felt like someone pressed the brake on me. It wouldn’t even run over 5000 rpms. The next start and attempt I had that rough idle/popping. Then on the next start I was all set to video the sound and it’s gone. Never happened again.
    That may or may not be a symptom of the original problem. But I felt the original problem should be mentioned so I continued this thread.
    For the record I explicitly asked the shop to do the drop test as Don and others mentioned above. I even offered to take a day off to help if needed. Needless to say I am not going back. BUT the drop test still hasn’t been done. And although the rough idle/popping quit yesterday the pull back above 5000 never has with very few exceptions. I dropped a pitch (24) back in hot August and when it was running good I saw 5700 ish and it held. I remember thinking it’ll hit the limiter when it gets colder. But yesterday (low 50’s) it would only get to 5400 with that same prop. It’s been a frustrating time. I love the boat and want to get it right. Don it may be coming to you. But I wanted that test done beforehand. So I kind of felt like I should utilize a local outfit on the water. Bad decision. Any advice is appreciated.
    Last edited by Judson1; 11-20-2022 at 11:44 AM.
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  4. Member 06 SB's Avatar
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    #24
    Get the boat to Don. It is your best option. I live 3.5 hours from Don and guess who gets all my work? Don.

    I became a believer in his expertise many years ago when I had 135 Optimax that no one locally could figure it out its issues. I dropped it off then on the drive home, Don let me know what was wrong and the cost. He diagnosed in 2 hours what my local ATL area mechanics could not after months (and $) of work. It ran for many years after that repair.

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  5. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #25
    I'm going to recommend (with CAUTION) that you try to get a really good description of what the engine does, or does not do NOW, from idle to warmup, warmup to planing, planing to WOT run, drop to cruising speed, return to WOT, come off plane, idle for 45-60 seconds, then shutdown.

    Note RPM's, Water pressure and WOT GPS Speed when you're at WOT.

    If no problems occur, repeat.

    Report back on results and we can go from there.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EuropeanAM View Post
    I'm going to recommend (with CAUTION) that you try to get a really good description of what the engine does, or does not do NOW, from idle to warmup, warmup to planing, planing to WOT run, drop to cruising speed, return to WOT, come off plane, idle for 45-60 seconds, then shutdown.

    Note RPM's, Water pressure and WOT GPS Speed when you're at WOT.

    If no problems occur, repeat.

    Report back on results and we can go from there.
    Don first off thanks for the reply.
    I hate to ask another question but for clarity.
    You said in your last sentence if no problems occur, repeat. Is that either problem? Or just the popping sound and rough planing/running? Because the rpm fluctuations are pretty common so I will expect it the first go around.
    I have smartcraft so I will just note as much info as possible. Hopefully the info I pull will help here. Thanks
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  7. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #27
    No problems = No running or performance abnormalities, warnings, etc.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
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    #28
    60 degree air temp. Calm conditions. Solo. Half tank gas. Livewells empty.
    14.2 volts. 570 -640 rpm smooth idle not in gear.
    At startup 53 degree engine temp. Took 4 min to get to 131. Another 2 min to get to 161. Then dropped to 116 in 20 seconds.
    Smooth acceleration to around 5400 rpms. 107 noted temp at 5400. 19.4 water pressure.
    This is a frame by frame rpm output. I can see and feel the engine drop out
    5290/5410/5390/5300/5320/5370/5300/5290/5420. That was a 5 second window.
    Dropped to cruising speed of about 45 gps. This is the frame by frame at that speed.
    4330/4320/4310/4300/4320/4300/4320/4300/4310/4300.
    I came off plane and idled (smooth) then shutdown. No popping sound noted.

    Second run. I was quicker to full throttle. Perhaps that’s why I was able to get a higher overall rpm? Because there was no current or wind aid. Revs to 3500 and is quick to plane. From idle it took 14 seconds to 5000 rpms. Another 9 seconds to 5520.
    5610/5430/5600/5450/5500/5450/5610/5430. That was in 3 seconds.
    Top speed 63-64 and saw 5650 for a frame or two.
    Dropped back to cruising but at a slightly faster speed than the first run and the frames were 4680/4660/4670/4660/4650/4670/4660/4670 in 6 seconds. It simply doesn’t do it at the cruising speeds.
    Never experienced the popping sound/rough planing today. It last showed itself last Saturday after my first restart early that morning. And that was about 15 min after shutdown from a 5 mile run. Then it went away. That problem has only shown itself Saturday, and in September when I took it in. That could be a symptom of the main problem or something separate I don’t know.
    Again I saw 5700 rpms on an August afternoon with this same prop. No setup changes. I have seen 68 gps a time or two in slightly warmer weather /water temp. Saturday, about 2 miles into my first run it basically dropped back and wouldn’t let me get above 5000-5100. It’s like sometimes the rpms are restricted more than other times. But the drop fluctuations are almost always 150-200 rpms.
    Thank You.
    2013 Pantera 4
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  9. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #29
    Let's back up to some basics. Verify:

    -Compression Test

    -SPARK TEST (preferably when this is occurring as close to IMMEDIATELY after returning to idle as possible... using a timing light on each plug wire)

    -VISUAL inspection for water spots or evidence of cracks in the cylinder heads, around spark plugs, etc.

    -Check Belt and Tensioner: Tensioner spring must product a minimum of 70 lbs/in tension BEFORE the arm reaches it's end of travel. Belt can be stretched and cause slipping at higher RPM's.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by EuropeanAM View Post
    Let's back up to some basics. Verify:

    -Compression Test

    -SPARK TEST (preferably when this is occurring as close to IMMEDIATELY after returning to idle as possible... using a timing light on each plug wire)

    -VISUAL inspection for water spots or evidence of cracks in the cylinder heads, around spark plugs, etc.

    -Check Belt and Tensioner: Tensioner spring must product a minimum of 70 lbs/in tension BEFORE the arm reaches its end of travel. Belt can be stretched and cause slipping at higher RPM's.

    I spent a little time doing a visual inspection. Albeit with an untrained eye. I DID notice water spotting up by the belt. I pulled the #1 and #3 plugs and found them wet. I stopped there to come in and type this up. I didn’t see anything with the wiring but I’m going to look more.
    As far as the other tests you mentioned I will have to find some technical help to complete that. I will answer some of it based on past tests. I know these tests were done some time ago. But these test results were done in an effort to find this same problem so at least in my opinion they are relevant. I can certainly have them done again though.
    Compression: 1)90 2)90 3)95 4)90 5)85 6)90.
    “Checked air and fuel pressure at idle/mid/WOT 108PSI Fuel Tank and 94 PSI Air”. Going back through the paperwork they said they checked the Fuel/air on two separate visits. But unsure if it was on the water while running. I asked them to.Thanks 1B3A4358-3089-49AF-9AF1-4E78C8CF0824.jpeg90FFA171-6EA8-44B0-92B5-7617A3AEEA61.jpeg865439B9-29FE-4E57-A9EB-C3F3D1866ACA.jpeg26FB363A-1475-49BF-8929-88140B13BE45.jpeg
    Last edited by Judson1; 11-26-2022 at 10:29 AM.
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  11. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #31
    Take a look at the cooling hoses coming into (port side) and out of (stb side top) of the Air Compressor. Check for any signs that there are chafed, cut, or damage hoses... poor connections/clamps, loose fittings, etc.

    The water spots you showed on the compressor COULD simply be from a heavy backwash coming off plane at some point.

    Turn the plug over and look at the other side of the porcelain to see if there are any carbon tracks/cracks that run LENGTH WISE. Did you physically see water on the wire or plug (externally)?


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
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    #32
    I wanted to give an update. I took it in on Nov 30th and the dealer has done a lot of work trying to find this. They even had a Mercury tech come down last week and after spending some time on it they came up with the Tuner gasket was damaged and thus causing backpressure that affected the performance (surging). It was especially hard since the only way to duplicate the problem was 55+ on the water.
    Going back about 15 months ago another dealer sent the injectors off to be cleaned because they thought that was the problem. And upon reinstalling and lake testing they told me the powerhead gasket was leaking. But they never mentioned the Tuner gasket. However JOE54 did. Unfortunately by the time I got ahold of them to change it they had already put the powerhead back on.
    IF this was indeed the problem I really feel bad it wasnt solved in Oct of 21. But I wanted to thank each one of you again for your time and effort. This resource is amazing and as someone who just doesn’t have a great knowledge of engines I really appreciate it!
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    #33
    i cant remember the exact time frame the new HPERF gaskets were introduced they were a blessing many times the base gasket is only changed when powerhead is removed on early 3.0L engines i have seen so many tuner gaskets blown that i will not only change the base gasket, "however" been there seen that
    .................................................. ...the scariest thing in life is the unknown ...................................

  14. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #34
    Joe... they must have had a 1/2 million of the old ones left because it was pretty late in production before they started showing up with the new gasket style on factory assembled engines.

    Like you... spent many afternoons grumbling under my breath.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
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    #35
    If the tuner gasket doesn't fix it, then I would pull both cylinder heads and check the sleeve port alignment to the block.



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    #36
    Very sorry Don.
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage View Post
    If the tuner gasket doesn't fix it, then I would pull both cylinder heads and check the sleeve port alignment to the block.
    agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    .................................................. ...the scariest thing in life is the unknown ...................................

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