MercMonitor Level 1 and VesselView Link both installed

[ChuckH]

Question, 250 PRO XS 4s (3B172310): Don a question regarding if both a MercMonitor Level 1 and VesselView Link were installed on the network if there would be issues regarding master instruments, etc. The boat has VVL pre-installed which interfaces with the Ranger Ride system, so I need to retain this. I would like to install a level 1 MERCmonior to obtain fault descriptions and leave the VVL installed. Plans for the merc monitor are to turn the gateway function on and set as Transmit on the NEMA 2000 network, in order to receive GPS info from my Point-1 puck (speed) and retain system check on the merc monitor. Will there be issues with this configuration? If so, is there any work arounds? Thanks

[EuropeanAM]

Should not cause a problem. If you do have any difficulties, disconnect the VesselView Link, setup the MercMonitor, and then reinstall the VesselView Link.

VVL will often latch Station-2 just to stay "clear" of any other Smartcraft devices.

[ChuckH]

Thanks Don, as a follow up is there any way to easily see if the VVL has latched as station 2?

Noticed on the VVL configuration screen it defaults to helm 1 but can be changed to 2. Is this what you refer to as station 2? If so I can just change this to 2..correct?

Also I was toying with the concept of just setting the merc monitor as non gateway and leveraging nema 0183 for gps to accomplish my original objective.

Just a curiosity question regarding nema 0183 input to the MercMonitor. What nema 0183 sentences will the merc monitor utilize other than GPS sentences? Interested in perhaps the sonar sentences to get depth on the MercMonitor, etc. Thanks again.

[MichaelJ3]

I had SC-1000 Tach and Seedo (not Merc-Monitor), but was never able to get Depth info on it (MercMonitor may be different).

I believe I enabled:
RMB, RMC and that took care of Speed, Time, Distance to Waypoint, Heading, and allowed SC1000 to calculate Fuel to waypoint, sound waypoint arrival, etc.

I tried DBT and DPT, and never had any luck getting depth to show on my SC-1000.

I will look at the boat tonight and tell you exactly what sentences I enabled as output. (Incidentally, I am in the process of pulling my SC-1000's and going only w/ VVL and an MFD for gauges, curious why you want to still run the MercMonitor w/ a VVL; I thought VVL also gave fault decodes in full text).

Be sure you set Baud Rate to 4800.
Set merc-monitor to use GPS speed,
Minimize the number of sentences you use, again, not sure you need much past RMB and RMC.

Found this info on the web, I think it is a list of all the NEMA-0183 sentences.
NMEA sentences.

AAM - Waypoint Arrival Alarm
ALM - GPS Almanac Data
APB - Autopilot Sentence "B
ASD - Autopilot System Data
BEC - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Dead Reckoning
BOD - Bearing, Origin to Destination
BWC - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Great Circle
BWR - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Rhumb Line
BWW - Bearing, Waypoint to Waypoint
DBT - Depth Below Transducer
DCN - Decca Position
DPT - Depth
FSI - Frequency Set Information
GGA - Global Positioning System Fix Data
GLC - Geographic Position, Loran-C
GLL - Geographic Position, Latitude/Longitude
GSA - GPS DOP and Active Satellites
GSV - GPS Satellites in View
GXA - TRANSIT Position
HDG - Heading, Deviation & Variation
HDT - Heading, True
HSC - Heading Steering Command
LCD - Loran-C Signal Data
MTW - Water Temperature
MWV - Wind Speed and Angle
OLN - Omega Lane Numbers
OSD - Own Ship Data
RMA - Recommend Minimum Specific Loran-C Data
RMB - Recommend Minimum Navigation Information
RMC - Recommend Minimum Specific GPS/TRANSIT Data
ROT - Rate of Turn
RPM - Revolutions
RSA - Rudder Sensor Angle
RSD - RADAR System Data
RTE - Routes
SFI - Scanning Frequency Information
STN - Multiple Data ID
TRF - TRANSIT Fix Data
TTM - Tracked Target Message
VBW - Dual Ground/Water Speed
VDR - Set and Drift
VHW - Water Speed and Heading
VLW - Distance Traveled through the Water
VPW - Speed, Measured Parallel to Wind
VTG - Track Made Good and Ground Speed
WCV - Waypoint Closure Velocity
WNC - Distance, Waypoint to Waypoint
WPL - Waypoint Location
XDR - Transducer Measurements
XTE - Cross-Track Error, Measured
XTR - Cross-Track Error, Dead Reckoning
ZDA - Time & Date
ZFO - UTC & Time from Origin Waypoint
ZTG - UTC & Time to Destination Waypoint

[EuropeanAM]

I had SC-1000 Tach and Seedo (not Merc-Monitor), but was never able to get Depth info on it (MercMonitor may be different).

I believe I enabled:
RMB, RMC and that took care of Speed, Time, Distance to Waypoint, Heading, and allowed SC1000 to calculate Fuel to waypoint, sound waypoint arrival, etc.

I tried DBT and DPT, and never had any luck getting depth to show on my SC-1000.

I will look at the boat tonight and tell you exactly what sentences I enabled as output. (Incidentally, I am in the process of pulling my SC-1000's and going only w/ VVL and an MFD for gauges, curious why you want to still run the MercMonitor w/ a VVL; I thought VVL also gave fault decodes in full text).

Be sure you set Baud Rate to 4800.
Set merc-monitor to use GPS speed,
Minimize the number of sentences you use, again, not sure you need much past RMB and RMC.

Found this info on the web, I think it is a list of all the NEMA-0183 sentences.
NMEA sentences.

AAM - Waypoint Arrival Alarm
ALM - GPS Almanac Data
APB - Autopilot Sentence "B
ASD - Autopilot System Data
BEC - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Dead Reckoning
BOD - Bearing, Origin to Destination
BWC - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Great Circle
BWR - Bearing & Distance to Waypoint, Rhumb Line
BWW - Bearing, Waypoint to Waypoint
DBT - Depth Below Transducer
DCN - Decca Position
DPT - Depth
FSI - Frequency Set Information
GGA - Global Positioning System Fix Data
GLC - Geographic Position, Loran-C
GLL - Geographic Position, Latitude/Longitude
GSA - GPS DOP and Active Satellites
GSV - GPS Satellites in View
GXA - TRANSIT Position
HDG - Heading, Deviation & Variation
HDT - Heading, True
HSC - Heading Steering Command
LCD - Loran-C Signal Data
MTW - Water Temperature
MWV - Wind Speed and Angle
OLN - Omega Lane Numbers
OSD - Own Ship Data
RMA - Recommend Minimum Specific Loran-C Data
RMB - Recommend Minimum Navigation Information
RMC - Recommend Minimum Specific GPS/TRANSIT Data
ROT - Rate of Turn
RPM - Revolutions
RSA - Rudder Sensor Angle
RSD - RADAR System Data
RTE - Routes
SFI - Scanning Frequency Information
STN - Multiple Data ID
TRF - TRANSIT Fix Data
TTM - Tracked Target Message
VBW - Dual Ground/Water Speed
VDR - Set and Drift
VHW - Water Speed and Heading
VLW - Distance Traveled through the Water
VPW - Speed, Measured Parallel to Wind
VTG - Track Made Good and Ground Speed
WCV - Waypoint Closure Velocity
WNC - Distance, Waypoint to Waypoint
WPL - Waypoint Location
XDR - Transducer Measurements
XTE - Cross-Track Error, Measured
XTR - Cross-Track Error, Dead Reckoning
ZDA - Time & Date
ZFO - UTC & Time from Origin Waypoint
ZTG - UTC & Time to Destination Waypoint

Sorry- the above info is no more than marginally helpful in this case! Mercury's NMEA-0183 permits only the very basic sentences (SOG, LON, LAT, WAYPOINTS).

Additionally: Smartcraft DEPTH is not a NMEA input, it is a wired input to the ENGINE that provides depth information to Smartcraft (directly).

You can select Helm-1 or Helm-2 based on setting up the various devices in your boat. Keep in mind that normally whichever device will be used to calibrate tanks, trim, etc. needs to be HELM-1 on the system (many features are hidden at Helm-2, which becomes a "slave").

Why would you use NMEA-0183 inputs where you have a NMEA-2000 network in place for a VV Link? NMEA-2000 is FAR superior and you have far more information available.

[MichaelJ3]

Agree w/ all that Don. Would be nice if Merc published what NEMA0183 Sentences the SC-1000 series can understand. Why put a “standard” input on your device and then leave it as a guess as to what info can be input.

Incidentally, your comments re: Helm 1 and Helm 2. I assume you can have multiple Devices (MFD’s for example) at each helm, and both can have engine data on them? Even if it is a single engine rig?

[ChuckH]

Thanks All, some clarification is indeed in order. Two Boats involved regarding my questions and follow-up questions. Both are Ranger Z520Rs and both have VesselView Link current software version and one (not mine; has MercMonitor Level 3 (MML3) version 9 in addition to VVL). I am considering MML1 on mine but want to avoid the behavior that is seen on the boat that already has a MercMonitor Installed before proceeding. The boats are both single engine non-dts with a Merc Pro Xs 4S.

It seems to be anomaly with the Ranger Ride System which consumes engine information from VVL to feed the Ranger Ride System display. The Ranger Ride System is nothing, but a Naviop Loop system which is fed information from VVL and other attached data points on both a Nema 2000 and J1939 Network.

Here is the kicker on the boat with the MML3 Installed. If you place the MML3 In Nema 2000 Gateway mode and set it to transmit, the engine Transmission position (F-N-R) on the RIDE Display just flashes like it is confused, everything appears to work except for the flashing. We assumed at this point it is perhaps rooted in the fact that VVL and MML3 are both giving the Ride system the same N2K PGNs regarding transmission from two different addresses. Thoughts?? That behavior is what drove my initial question asking Don if there are issues or know nasty issues using that configuration, and my follow-up question regarding Helm/station identification on VVL and MM3L. Thoughts? If the flashing issue with the Ride system has something to do with Helm/Station ID (both currently latches to Helm 1) it appears I can change that on VVL but have not discovered a way to do so on the MML3. Don am I missing something? But to Don's point the VVL should stay as Helm 1 since it is managing most of the other integrations in the boat. Don just to be clear the term Station and Helm in this case is one in the same, Correct?

In attempts to resolve the Flashing issue the MML3 was placed in N2K/Receive mode, AND the F-N-R stops flashing. But of course, we lost the System CHK screen, since the MML3 thinks it is not on the CAN network and thus thinks the sys check screen is not useful, which is not desired, but GPS info flows in nicely to support speed etc on the MML3. Since on the surface N2K/Transmit mode introduces the Flashing issue and N2K/Receive mode kills the Check System Screen we were left with one option to retain both GPS and System Check. We just completed placing the MML3 in NON-Gateway Mode (what a waste ;-( ) and enabling NEMA 0183 to get GPS info from the Lowrance Graft while retaining the Systems Check Screen in the MML3. So that is the answers to why NEMA 0183, i don't like the solution either.

Don do you have any idea what could be causing that flash with both the VVL and MML3 putting the same data (supposedly) on the same N2K Network? I know it is hard to guess how the code in the Ride Loop system is written, but one would think that with both units putting the same data on the same network why it would care. Maybe the ride system displays PGN info from source A and see source B and clears the display before updates, hence a flash.... just guessing. Crawling into a s/w developers mind is an ugly place to go, cuz i was one for 40 years, lol.

Regarding the question of why a Merc Monitor if the boat has VVL? I like to have that dedicated MM there and like the system check at key on. I have trained myself to watch that gauge and my choice of Tri-data. While VVL will turn the Mercury tab red if issues are found with my experience you if there is an issue you must dig into merc red tab for more information while the MM will be staring at you, not to mention don't like giving up graft screen real estate. Also, i have seen fault codes only (Lowrance Live Unit) on previous boats with VVL for some faults but text for others. Perhaps this has been corrected with the latest VVL software.

Lastly my question regarding what Nema 0183 Sentences could the MercMonitor consume/recognize, and why would i want to do that. In planning ahead if forced to stay with NEMA 0183 to achieve desired results given no workable N2K Solution (N2K / Transmit results in flashing & N2k/Receive no System Check Screen), wondering if there were other 0183 sentences that the MML3 or 1 could put to use as input and that may be useful.

Again, thanks all, for the help thus far.

[EuropeanAM]

Agree w/ all that Don. Would be nice if Merc published what NEMA0183 Sentences the SC-1000 series can understand. Why put a “standard” input on your device and then leave it as a guess as to what info can be input.

Incidentally, your comments re: Helm 1 and Helm 2. I assume you can have multiple Devices (MFD’s for example) at each helm, and both can have engine data on them? Even if it is a single engine rig?

Yes, though each separate Smartcraft Device will have it's own Helm location (meaning Helm-1 and Helm-2 would both be at the same console in this instance).

[EuropeanAM]

NMEA-0183 is an old technology, and it received one (1) final version update in Smartcraft devices roughly 8-10 years ago. It's still there for those that can use it, but not really been much for support since as it's considered old-technology.

If you have ONE (1) engine, you need to take one of the Smartcraft Devices (likely the MercMonitor) OFF of the NMEA-2000 Network for best results. Running multiple gateways that are both trying to output the same data sentences can cause significant problems with communication.

[ChuckH]

NMEA-0183 is an old technology, and it received one (1) final version update in Smartcraft devices roughly 8-10 years ago. It's still there for those that can use it, but not really been much for support since as it's considered old-technology.

If you have ONE (1) engine, you need to take one of the Smartcraft Devices (likely the MercMonitor) OFF of the NMEA-2000 Network for best results. Running multiple gateways that are both trying to output the same data sentences can cause significant problems with communication.

Thanks Don, we will leave MM in non gateway mode, which will prevent N2K communication. So given a single engine do i need to separate the MM and VVL to two different Helm IDs since both say they are Helm 1? If so is it possible to set the MM as helm 2? I have not seen a way to do this on the MM (the select button does nothing when set on engine position/helm ID under system settings. Thanks again

[EuropeanAM]

They should be on different Stations. I would reset the MM to Factory Defaults, and with the VVL live, let the MM auto-detect (it should select Station-2).

[MichaelJ3]

NMEA-0183 is an old technology, and it received one (1) final version update in Smartcraft devices roughly 8-10 years ago. It's still there for those that can use it, but not really been much for support since as it's considered old-technology.

Makes sense, but still seems like if a manufacturer (Merc in this case), is going to continue to manufacture and put in the market a device capable of connecting to a NEMA-0183 bus/devce, they should publish what sentences they can listen/react to; Is it written down anywhere?

[EuropeanAM]

I've not seen a list of NMEA-0183 data sentences since approximately 2004-2005. Remember- NMEA-2000 hit the market in 2000.

I'm quite confident that all that publication stated was that you could receive COG, LON, LAT, and Waypoint Data... and that was only because they were making ONE version update to the NMEA-0183 compatible versions list.

Not to brush the topic off, but if you think about the Personal Computer you were using in the early 2000's: The manufacturer of that Computer doesn't publish much information about it, it's drivers, or it's operating system today. I've still got one that I "could" use... but it's a dinosaur.

[ChuckH]

They should be on different Stations. I would reset the MM to Factory Defaults, and with the VVL live, let the MM auto-detect (it should select Station-2).

Thanks Don, I did as you instructed. It still shows as Helm-1. Is Helm and Station different things in this case? I cannot see any reference to Station, but maybe it worked, and i just cannot see it. Thanks

[EuropeanAM]

Helm and Station are two different words for same item.

Was the VVL On, powered up and communicating?

I have seen a number of VVL's that automatically attached as Helm (or Station)- 2. That's fine, just need to get one of them to autodetect and recognize the other Smartcraft Device (worst case, reset BOTH and start over with the MercMonitor FIRST, then plug in the VVL).

[ChuckH]

Helm and Station are two different words for same item.

Was the VVL On, powered up and communicating?

I have seen a number of VVL's that automatically attached as Helm (or Station)- 2. That's fine, just need to get one of them to autodetect and recognize the other Smartcraft Device (worst case, reset BOTH and start over with the MercMonitor FIRST, then plug in the VVL).

During the re-set of the MM, VVL was online and communicating. Durning the MM reboot it displays 'Helm 1." When I go to the VVL configuration screen it shows it is also Helm 1 & Instance 1. The MM is Version 9 and the VVL is the latest version from the Mercury Website.

As I mentioned earlier, I can change the Helm ID in the configuration screen of the VVL, but have not seen a way to manually change Helm ID on the MM. Is there a way to force the MM to Helm 2 in perhaps the G3 Tool? Based on your comments I am concerned about changing the VVL to Helm/Station 2 since it was factor installed by ranger and not exactly sure how the RIDE system consumes engine data and what may happen if the VVL goes into reduced function as Helm 2.

[EuropeanAM]

MM auto-detects. It's supposed to latch Helm/Station-2 if there is a Helm/Station-1 present and active.

VVL does give the option- so see if you can switch it to Station-2.

I personally would definitely prefer to have the VVL on Helm/Station-1, as it's considered the "Master" instrument (others are essentially "slave").

[BassinLA13]

Thanks All, some clarification is indeed in order. Two Boats involved regarding my questions and follow-up questions. Both are Ranger Z520Rs and both have VesselView Link current software version and one (not mine; has MercMonitor Level 3 (MML3) version 9 in addition to VVL). I am considering MML1 on mine but want to avoid the behavior that is seen on the boat that already has a MercMonitor Installed before proceeding. The boats are both single engine non-dts with a Merc Pro Xs 4S.

2022 Mercury Pro XS - 3B143674
Optional MercMonitor equipped.
2x HDS Lives networked.

Hi Chuck - read this entire exchange (very interesting) and would love to know what 'behavior' (bad I assume) you're experiencing w/ the MML1 and VVL equipped R boat ? Don has been extremely helpful allowing me to verify I have the right equipment installed etc. however I continue to have one particularly annoying gremlin:

My RIDE system (2.08) continues to lose Data throughout the day - this appears w/ an audible the GPS Fix alarm (I bet you know that one) but more interesting / troubling is that the data for external temp shows 32 degrees & water temp, RPM, speed, water psi etc are all gone on the HOME screen. This however can be instantly resolved by going to Settings / N2k Device List and hitting "REFRESH" ... the audible alarm silences and everything is back to normal. The conundrum here is that on that RIDE / N2K screen showing Devices - nothing has 'dropped' off <-- pointing to a possible culprit for the Data loss. I hope that makes sense, and to somebody who has also been as deep down this rabbit hole as I have, I think it may.

At this point I just put the Alarm Buzzer on Silence, hit N2K 'refresh' every time I start the big motor (I want the RIDE screen active when running) <-- even starting the Mercury doesn't 'reboot' the RIDE screen data - it doesn't even wake it up if its in Standby !

More details:

- MML1 - will not give up its Station 1 position - unplugged w/ VVL powered on several times etc also switched VVL to Helm 2 - no go - data loss problem continues.

- HDS Live - Data Sources all mimic what the RIDE system shows.

- OP BOX may be playing a role in all this ?

<- a video I made u may find interesting showing all the quirks going on.


Thanks for any thoughts u may have on all this ... and did you every get everything working on your rig ?

[EuropeanAM]

I would be looking at things as follows:

-CAREFULLY inspect for ANY crossing data leads (NMEA-2K and Transducers, Smartcraft and Transducers, etc).

-Isolate components from the system individually, and methodically. Keep in mind that MercMonitor will not give up Station-1 unless you RESET IT to Factory Defaults, and then unplug it during it's reboot cycle. That's the ONLY way... and it must remain unplugged until some other device has LATCHED Station-1 (or Helm-1) position as the MASTER instrument.

-Don't limit your search to only instruments and Smartcraft. Have seen some really strange stuff from items like Point-1, other items with GPS antennas, etc.

[BassinLA13]

I would be looking at things as follows:

-CAREFULLY inspect for ANY crossing data leads (NMEA-2K and Transducers, Smartcraft and Transducers, etc).

-Isolate components from the system individually, and methodically. Keep in mind that MercMonitor will not give up Station-1 unless you RESET IT to Factory Defaults, and then unplug it during it's reboot cycle. That's the ONLY way... and it must remain unplugged until some other device has LATCHED Station-1 (or Helm-1) position as the MASTER instrument.

-Don't limit your search to only instruments and Smartcraft. Have seen some really strange stuff from items like Point-1, other items with GPS antennas, etc.

Thank you Don - will go through this list - however one question for the less technically savvy:

crossing data leads <--- can I get more clarity on what this means ?