The ironic part is that Randy is, in a way, making bank on FFS technology in his own way- by making so many videos about it and getting so many people talking about it! LOL!Originally Posted by rjvana37
The ironic part is that Randy is, in a way, making bank on FFS technology in his own way- by making so many videos about it and getting so many people talking about it! LOL!
You can sell crap to your customers, but you'll only sell it once.
Randy needs to get better at what he is doing or that income stream is going to dwindle. He needs to better articulate what he really is upset about, instead of making it all about FFS, which is just the target he has chosen to focus on. His real gripe is the lost "art of fishing" as he has known it for years, and unfortunately for him that battle is already lost. Nobody is going backwards in this world to the good old days. All of his other stuff about ruining fisheries, decimating fish populations, none of that can really be directly attributed to FFS. He just has a point of view and is grasping for anything to try and validate it, without any real iron clad facts to anchor his conclusion to.
Your last point has always been the case. I started bass fishing at age 29 in 1988. By 1991 I had joined a club. It took me 14 more years to have the right job and life circumstances to afford my first tournament boat. I followed the old business model about being able to afford it as a lifestyle. Going up the ladder cost more money and a better job. My next steps were state level and eventually the opens. It didnt work out for me because I adhered to my business model which required affording.
Most of the people I encountered that made it to the state level and fished some opens had means. They had the jobs, careers and assets to afford to take that ride. Most were not blinded by the dream theory. Our average age was 40s and we had wives and kids that were more important than dreams.
Let me pose a possible dynamic that might be taking place-tell me if you think it has any merit. Say the "old style" fisherman and the catch statistics were based on old style fishing tactics-fishing shallow, cover, basic structure in a lake, etc. (Randy's Way). Now, compare that to the new way of fishing- using FFS and targeting bass that were generally not targeted in any appreciable capacity in the past. (Ben's way). Yes- the tournaments weight results will be maintained or even increased due to that switching in targeted populations alone. The shallow water bass is like your checking account that gets a portion of your paycheck. Baseline harvest and mortality due to being caught, hauled around, then released has been generally used as the basis/balance for the creel limits set by conservation departments in the past. The newly accessed population of bass is like your savings account. It the past it hasn't been drawn on very heavily, but now it is having withdrawals due to mortality due to all factors the shallow fish experienced (+ a barotrauma effect on some). Only time will tell if the interest on the savings + added contribution from unused paychecks (bass recruitment rate) can keep up with the withdrawal rate. I expect there will be a wide spread of fishery types that are affected differentially-some not at all, some hit fairly hard over time. I would hate to see a blanket regulation and agencies go to a "bass fishing season" to adjust for this though, since they likely wouldn't differentiate between someone catching and IMMEDIATELY releasing vs someone harvesting for meat.
The Beauty of BBC. First everyone was a doctor during covid. Then lawyers when the Boss was spot saving. Now I don't know what to call the Dunning Kruger phenomenon crowd. PHD's I guess.
You make a very good point, here. The issue of what constitutes "fair chase" is one that's been debated in various circles for a long time. The same debate took place when electronics were first introduced, with a couple states proposing that depthfinders be made illegal because their use would decimate the fisheries. Much of the same was said about the A-Rig. Some angler groups, notably trout fishermen, argue that much of the equipment used by bass anglers gives them an unfair advantage and violates what trout anglers say is "fair chase." Someone mentioned archery hunters debating the long bow vs the compound bow. Although I am not a hunter, I bet the same debate occurs between groups that favor primitive weapons and argue that modern weapons offer an unfair advantage. Maybe even among modern weapon hunters, there's a debate between those who favor iron sights vs scopes. Someone mentioned in a previous thread how the PGA regulates the equipment that can be used in their events. This is one of those issues that no matter how long or how vigorously it's debated, no one is going to convince those on the other side that they are wrong. I certainly hope that we can keep state legislatures and state fishery folks from imposing their rules on us. However, to me, it's perfectly acceptable for each tournament trail to set their own rules about what's "fair chase" in their events and restrict (or not) the equipment used, accordingly.
"The man of system is apt to be very wise in his own conceit; and is often so enamored with the supposed beauty of his own ideal plan of government that he cannot suffer the smallest deviation from any part of it…He seems to imagine that he can arrange the different members of a great society with as much ease as the hand arranges the different pieces upon a chessboard.” Adam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments
I agree with that statement completely. Lake Cumberland recently went through this new lake effect because of the work on the dam keeping the water low allowed cover to re-establish in largemouth zones. It’s starting to wane a bit now because the cover is dying and breaking off taking away good cover for fry recruitment. Smallmouth haven’t seemed near as affected as the largies it seems. Another small lake close to me is now getting some age on it, 20-25 years old and it’s starting to wane. It’s just the life cycle of reservoirs
That’s assuming the fish being caught Bens way aren’t simply the fish that used to be on the bank but are now in open water due to pressure. Bank fishing has become noticeably harder for me after the pandemic wave of new fishing pressure. I don’t fish off the bank because I just love it, I do it because I have to most of the time to catch any at all. Pressure has made the lowest hanging fruit harder to come by. Sure there have always been more offshore than on but massive fishing pressure has only increased that offshore population imo. The fish are changing and the most successful anglers are changing with them.
For example, go fish a shallow brush pile with plenty of fish on it a couple days in a row during stable conditions. That second or third day you won’t be near as successful unless it’s a transition stop during the spawn with new visiting fish everyday. Those fish only get messed with so much before the leave. Lots of factors for why bank beating isn’t as successful as it has been in the past and FFS for sure ain’t the only one.
He suffers from the same thing lots of old people do, Technology. He let it pass him by.
Last edited by ThomasD; 12-05-2023 at 03:20 PM.
Several more examples would be Amistad and Falcon coming up in the 2003-2005 time frame. I weighed a 36+ bag at Amistad in 2007 and Elias beat my Clear Lake record at Falcon in 2008. Another would be OH Ivie. Those fish were likely packing on 2-3 lbs per year.
And the current Amistad decline started way before FFS hit it, they definitely can’t use that lake for their data points. I’m sure Randy would try, if he fished it.
Absolutely. I remember that Clear lake bag/total weight seeing it online, that was wild. I didn’t know that was possible at the time because I fished mostly in Ky and Tn and 20lb was and is a killer limit lol. Above a certain latitude (probably just below the Ozarks actually), the growing season is much much shorter than those below it and it’s just a geographical fact that we can’t escape. I’ve always wanted the lakes in my part of the world to hold lots of giants but it just takes too many years and more food than we have for them to get there. Lots of variables against the bass to get to 10-12 years old much less 15+. A 10 year old bass in Falcon is a lot different animal than a 10 year old in Ky lake
If Ky lake didn’t hit the crapper 5-6 years ago, he would’ve been blaming FFS for that too
Its not just sports and fishing its all facets of life. There was a Christmas light competition on TV the other night. There were 3 incredible houses all done by hand to make a display. Then there was a house in Texas where the guy used 500 drones programmed to make mini constellation designs in the sky. The wow factor of the technology was the decider in the contest. It was kind of disapointing to know that he would win once they showed his stuff.
I have spent my whole life changing trades due to technology. I get what Randy is saying about aesthetics. Problem is tournament fishing has taken the same route as the rest of the world and is now driven by technology. He should go to England and compete in the tournaments they have there that are designed according to aesthetics of the early days.
Last edited by mattmann7; 12-05-2023 at 04:08 PM.
No doubt he would have. Those carp did a number on that place. That place has been good to me. Something similar may be part of what Randy is observing at Table Rock. From what I can find online, they started stocking paddlefish in 1972 and did a big stocking in 2016. Those fish are just now reaching legal size. That is a lot of filter feeding biomass that will never be converted to bass.
https://mdc.mo.gov/fishing/species/p...ort-advisories
That’s an interesting thought. I do believe that filter feeding species hurt more than anything for fisheries of all kinds. Or too many big filter feeders that is. There is just no check for them in the ecosystems whatsoever. Shad are kept in check by predators like bass/musky/pike but carps and paddlefish just can do whatever they want anytime. Sucks cause Ky lake was a national bass fishing treasure
I agree, it has always been true that some sports/leisure activities are costly and if you don't have the money you can't participate. In dirt stock car racing through the early 2000's when I was racing the stands were full, the fields were full, it was not unusual to get over 120 cars for 5 classes and guys who raced in the 90's were saying that fields of close to 200 for 5 classes were the norm. It was tough making the show and getting check, but the economy and cost of the sport at that time meant blue collar working class folks earning good wages with plenty of OT could put together a decent car and go race all summer.
That all started going downhill around 2004/2005, when fields started shrinking and attendance started going down too. Lo and behold, the entire economy crashed in 2008, but in racing we had seen the slow decline over 3/4 years, so we knew that something was happening in the wider economy that was cutting the funds of people to be able to race. I stopped in 2006, mainly due to funding issues. Just didn't have the money to do it any more.
None of that has come back to what it was back then. Wages have no recovered, the cost of everything has gone up, and some tracks have closed and the remaining ones are mainly run by wealthy owners with other income streams to fund their lives and the tracks just kind of turn over, break even year to year. The racers in general don't build their cars from the ground up any more, they buy it all from a chassis to engines/transmissions, shocks, all of it made to order for their chassis. And yes, its mainly wealthy people with private businesses or the sons and daughters of wealthy people who comprise the field. Gone are the days of the little guy.
So that is my point. What is hurting tournament fishing and stock car racing and little league ball and traveling basketball is what has happened in the wider economy. Gone are the days when decent blue collar jobs with OT pay for that kind of thing, now those "good jobs" pay for a decent house and a vacation, but racing or buying tournament level boats with all that extra stuff is truly the preserve of the haves, not the have nots. Sure the rich folk could always afford it, but it used to be that the non-business owner, non upper level manager, non financial adviser, non doctor, non dentist, non lawyer blue collar people could get enough in their regular paychecks and in OT in the off season to make it work and get involved. These days, that is over. A memory.
Last edited by Toni; 12-05-2023 at 05:41 PM.
I don’t think it has much merit at all. People have been fishing deep for as long as I have been around. It is practically all my Dad does. It is hard to find articles pre internet but a smoke grub in the Ozarks has been a thing forever.
https://bass-archives.com/the-3-inch-grub/
As for a bank account, a bank account stays steady or might gain a little in interest. Bass mortality occurs whether we fish for them or not. From what I can find, it takes 5-6 years for a spot to reach 15” at Table Rock. Probably 90% of the big 17” plus spots out there will be dead in the next 2-3 years from old age. I think a farm would be a better way to look at things. If managed properly they will be replaced in near equal numbers.
https://mdc.mo.gov/fishing/fishing-p...able-rock-lake
This article suggests the fishing on Table Rock should be good for the next couple of years, but it also implies they didn’t have good recruitment before or since 2020, which has nothing to do with FFS.
Yea factual info from marine biologist, I remember when our biologists said hybrids and strippers would not eat small bass and or crappie back in the 70’s also.
Reply With Quote