115 Optimax Issues

[bishoptf]

Well I finally got everything a part, with 2 kids end of school busy time. I cleaned things up and from the looks of it, it doesn't appear to be so bad. From what I can see most of the damage appears to be aluminium deposited on the cylinder walls. I think I am going to try some muratic acid with q-tips and see how it cleans up. It will be time consuming since I do not want to get any inside the ports, probably stuff some towels in the ports for safety and then see how much aluminium I can remove.

Here are some pics, I think I might have found a machine shop, they only do outboards. About 3 hours drive but will see how I can do on the cleanup and then go from there.

[lfb6]

(Have you sent the injectors yet?)

I think the perfectionist way of a rebuild is surely the best way to do it and if I should repair an engine for someone else taking money for it I'd like for sure to have a happy customer with an engine that runs flawlessly for some years in the future. Also economically that would be the right way for a shop as the customer returning within the warranty period would be expensive, the customer reporting after 3 or 4 years reporting bad work kept potential customers from coming to my shop while the customer reporting "it wasn't cheap but it was worth it" is a good recommendation.
And a customer that once wanted it the cheap way would forget more rapidly that he agreed to a compromise (knowing about the risks) than that he had his engine rebuilt.

But when thinking about doing it myself? With this engine beeing mine I'd be really tempted to do it the cheap way. 146 hours, good compression on two cylinders- why not get the 3rd cylinder bored and honed, get an oversized piston and try? Displacement is almost the same (+ 0.015" is +0.83%, + 0.030" is +1.66%), that would be a difference in compression of ~1 or ~2 psi given the 120psi (?) of the two others. Piston weight is according to manual almost the same, too.

I think this also is an area where there might be some myths out how things have to be done. But of course no one checks if one could set the limit a little lower as good craftsmanship recommends- either it's your reputation (shop side) or your money/ work (owners side).

I may be spoiled by my own area of work where I've seen too many discarded fundamental truths in the last years... so my excuses for this nasty post

[bishoptf]

(Have you sent the injectors yet?)

I think the perfectionist way of a rebuild is surely the best way to do it and if I should repair an engine for someone else taking money for it I'd like for sure to have a happy customer with an engine that runs flawlessly for some years in the future. Also economically that would be the right way for a shop as the customer returning within the warranty period would be expensive, the customer reporting after 3 or 4 years reporting bad work kept potential customers from coming to my shop while the customer reporting "it wasn't cheap but it was worth it" is a good recommendation.
And a customer that once wanted it the cheap way would forget more rapidly that he agreed to a compromise (knowing about the risks) than that he had his engine rebuilt.

But when thinking about doing it myself? With this engine beeing mine I'd be really tempted to do it the cheap way. 146 hours, good compression on two cylinders- why not get the 3rd cylinder bored and honed, get an oversized piston and try? Displacement is almost the same (+ 0.015" is +0.83%, + 0.030" is +1.66%), that would be a difference in compression of ~1 or ~2 psi given the 120psi (?) of the two others. Piston weight is according to manual almost the same, too.

I think this also is an area where there might be some myths out how things have to be done. But of course no one checks if one could set the limit a little lower as good craftsmanship recommends- either it's your reputation (shop side) or your money/ work (owners side).

I may be spoiled by my own area of work where I've seen too many discarded fundamental truths in the last years... so my excuses for this nasty post

Yup thats pretty much what I am going to do, I'm not sure I am even going to bore and resize. I am going to see how much aluminum will come off the cylinder walls, it appears from looking at it that all of the scoring is the transfer of aluminum to the sleeve. I am going to see what I can clean up with the muratic acid and then after that take some readings and see what I have. :)

Anyone know what kind of sleeves are in the mercs? I assume that they are steel and not nikasil but thought I would ask?

Don, on another topic did merc ever comer out with fuel regulator diaphragms, I don't think they did and I think that having to buy a new rail is pretty lame. I think this will be my first and only merc, I know every engine has there issues but I just don't like how merc is doing things, my .02 rant.

Thanks in advance for anyone that knows what the sleeves are made up of. :)

[bishoptf]

Everything that I can find says they are steel sleeves, that is what I am going to assume. Now I will email my chemist brother and ask him his thoughts on muratic acid.

[lfb6]

Everything that I can find says they are steel sleeves, that is what I am going to assume. .....

Well, I read several times that only steel sleeves could be bored, nikasil coated ones would need to be re-coated when bored- so as these can be bored you're probably right.

As for the diaphragms: Don't know if that's so bad. At least you find people dealing with the rails (example) (don't know if Don replaces these diaphragms when he services the rails?) And concerning the price for a fuel rail: Have you ever checked the price for a direct-air-injector?

[bishoptf]

Well, I read several times that only steel sleeves could be bored, nikasil coated ones would need to be re-coated when bored- so as these can be bored you're probably right.

As for the diaphragms: Don't know if that's so bad. At least you find people dealing with the rails (example) (don't know if Don replaces these diaphragms when he services the rails?) And concerning the price for a fuel rail: Have you ever checked the price for a direct-air-injector?

Yes I was originally just going to purchase new injectors, everything is plated in gold..geez

I picked up some muratic acid, will go slow and see how it turns out.

[Nova Kaw 650]

I don't know about the outboard world, but generally steel sleeves are just that. Aluminum bores are nikasil (or some other coating) coated.

[EuropeanAM]

Yup thats pretty much what I am going to do, I'm not sure I am even going to bore and resize. I am going to see how much aluminum will come off the cylinder walls, it appears from looking at it that all of the scoring is the transfer of aluminum to the sleeve. I am going to see what I can clean up with the muratic acid and then after that take some readings and see what I have. :)

Anyone know what kind of sleeves are in the mercs? I assume that they are steel and not nikasil but thought I would ask?

Don, on another topic did merc ever comer out with fuel regulator diaphragms, I don't think they did and I think that having to buy a new rail is pretty lame. I think this will be my first and only merc, I know every engine has there issues but I just don't like how merc is doing things, my .02 rant.

Thanks in advance for anyone that knows what the sleeves are made up of. :)

Steel sleeves in this Optimax model.

You're on the right track cleaning away the transferred aluminum FIRST (so you can determine the extent of the damage to the STEEL sleeve).

Diaphram replacements have flipped from "soon available" to "not available" (back and forth). It does not appear (at this time) that it is going to happen.

We have replacement diaphrams that we can use in your rails, IN THE EVENT one is found to need replacement during Rail/Injector Service.

EUROPEAN MARINE, LLC

[bishoptf]

I have everything cleaned up and ready to go, sorry I haven't taken any more photos. Most of the morning on saturday with the acid to clean up the cylinder. The non exhaust side cleaned up really well and if the opposite side looked the same then I would just rehone but its more scuffed. Thats the best description, not terriable but scuffed past the point where honing would bring it inline.

I believe that the .015 piston would be more then enough to clean it up since none of the scuffs are deep at all but that is just my assessment. Next step is to get it to a machine shop and see what they can do. I have one that I am going to stop by tomorrow and talk and let them see the block, otherwise I will have to ship it somewhere. Anyone have any good suggestions for me when talking to the machine shop to make sure they know what they are doing?

Otherwise I have to ship it somewhere anyone have any good machine shops that are located close to missouri? Trying to keep it close so I can save some time on shipping.

Here is what I have done so far:

Impeller rebuild
Pulse pump rebuild
Lower gear oil changed
All of the gaskets cleaned up
Reed cage cleaned up (I'm swapping the reeds while I have it a part CCMS sports reeds)


About the reeds, the cage appears to be coated in rubber and in good shape, not cracked or anything. Do I need to do anything to prep the cage or can I just swap the reeds if the surface looks good and smooth.

Thanks.

[Haughton]

http://www.bbcboards.net/mercury-3-l...s-install.html

[EuropeanAM]

You'll need a machine shop capable of boring a "blind" hole. Some are... some are NOT (here locally, I've found a small engine repair machine shop that's quite good with this type of bore).

I would also recommend you NOT bore the engine until you've ordered, and received the piston you plan to use in the bore. A good machinist will measure the piston FIRST (before boring).

[Nova Kaw 650]

You'll need a machine shop capable of boring a "blind" hole. Some are... some are NOT

That's a bit of a trick in and of itself.

[bassassin]

+1 and good points Roy. Even a system monitor will show temp, and that's where it should be set to confirm engine is reaching proper temp when boating in cold water. When I had one, I would scroll through to read temp, and once it was normal, then move to water pressure. I still do it that way today with my MercMonitor, only once I've confirmed proper temp, I move to Favorites which I've programmed to show important screens I want to see in 5-second intervals.

Just curious - what is a rough estimate for cost for a mercmonitor installed? Is it something that can be done oneself or is best left to a merc tech? I am mainly interested in just motor temp, water pressure and rpm. Thanks.

[Wildcat Dude]

Mercmonitor is PLUG & PLAY for the most part. Hardest part is running the data cable through the boat. Contact Don with your SN# and they'll work up a kit with BBC discount for you. Be sure to tell him what you want it to do for you as you might need sensors based on some you want displayed.

[bishoptf]

Quick update, found a local machine shop that had no issues boring the head, bored the one cylinder .015 over and re honed the other 2, they all look like they should now be ready to go. Now I am just waiting for all of the parts to come in so I can start putting it back together.

I have all of the gasket surfaces ready to go and up next is just getting everything cleaned up and ready to go.

I also heard back from my injector cleaning service, I did not tell them that I had a problem but he told me that the one air injector was stuck and not cycling properly, actually not cycling at all...so I think that explains the lean condition in the cylinder. He stated that it cleaned up and is running 100% now. If they weren't so bloody expensive I would just replace it but they are crazy expensive.

I guess from now on the only thing I know to do is to have them serviced every other year, maybe every year, kind of an expensive thing to do every year but cheaper then a rebuild.

I will update with some pics hopefully going back together.

[EuropeanAM]

I recommend at least once every 3 years or 300 hours on rails, fuel injectors, and direct injectors (whichever occurs FIRST).

Who did your injectors? You REALLY, REALLY should notify anyone servicing your injectors of any cylinder or air compressor failures- NOT doing so put their expensive equipment at risk (as the direct injector that was in the failed cylinder was almost CERTAINLY full of METAL from the failed cylinder- likely the cause of it's improper function). JMHO.... but I know I would be pretty "miffed" if I pumped metal fragments into my equipment that you knew about (had someone pull this last year with a compressor failure- ended up down for 3 days with equipment torn completely apart for new filters, new pump, pressure regulator repair, and a LOT of cleanup).

[bishoptf]

I recommend at least once every 3 years or 300 hours on rails, fuel injectors, and direct injectors (whichever occurs FIRST).

Who did your injectors? You REALLY, REALLY should notify anyone servicing your injectors of any cylinder or air compressor failures- NOT doing so put their expensive equipment at risk (as the direct injector that was in the failed cylinder was almost CERTAINLY full of METAL from the failed cylinder- likely the cause of it's improper function). JMHO.... but I know I would be pretty "miffed" if I pumped metal fragments into my equipment that you knew about (had someone pull this last year with a compressor failure- ended up down for 3 days with equipment torn completely apart for new filters, new pump, pressure regulator repair, and a LOT of cleanup).

Yeah bummer, I hear you, I did not have a compressor failure and believe the injector failed which leaned out the cylinder. I personally talked to the individual when he was finished with them and discussed my circumstances so he was well aware of what I was dealing with.

Good to know your thoughts on the interval, with my boat sitting in the winter i would be inclined to do it more often but no decisions have been made as to how often I want to do it. I need to get it back together and hopefully make sure everything is working, lots to do, wish my parts would get here.

I did not go aftermarket with the piston but I would like to know what would have been a good cast alternative, I think I have read enough to determine that forging pistons are probably not the way to go like the wiseco's but what about vertex etc. Just curious if anyone one doing this work uses any aftermarket parts and if so which ones.

Thanks.

[EuropeanAM]

There some good aftermarket pistons out there... I personally prefer to stick with the original equipment if at all possible (and if not, may consider Vertex, Pro-Marine, etc).

[bishoptf]

Need some help, I want to place the bleed hose, they painted it when they did the engine and its pretty brittle. I was trying to not go with the mercury stuff since it's about $20 for 38in of rubber hose. The part number they list is 856060 65, looks like its 5/16OD x 1/8ID hose, I would assume fuel grade since its exposed to the oil.

Anyone have any ideas of what else to use in place of or is it cha ching more merc.

thanks.

[EuropeanAM]

I would not recommend substituting "other" hoses for this purpose. Strongly recommend the OEM recommended hose, as it's spec'd and designed SPECIFICALLY for this application.