Ledgend Boats and Champion?

[JohnM]

I was on another board discussing a slight accident I had on the water a couple weeks ago Pat. Once again I caught something floating under the water with the skeg of my motor like I did many years ago when I had Champ198 with me. When the nose of the boat hits the water it's called a bow hook for those that have never experienced it. A breech is just a controlled version of this. I was running 65MPH this time. As soon as I felt that familiar bump on the lower unit and the bow fall I knew what was coming and started cranking on the wheel. I did not get it all the way around because the guy with me landed in my lap. He sprung his wrist trying to stay in his seat, mind you this dude weighs 250+. All this happens faster than you can fathom.

Everytime this subject comes up several people chime in about it. The guy with me has been boating for 30+ years and "that was the most violent thing I've ever done in a boat" was his comment. He thought I had done it on purpose because I just sat there and asked was he OK I was not shook up in the least. I've practiced that move in my new boat several times at lower speeds and hit something last year by myself at 68 MPH. My wrist were a little sore and of course my side was sore from getting slammed against the side of the boat. I told him I would NEVER do that on purpose without telling someone what was coming. what to do etc....

Pat has been doing this years longer than I have and knows the hulls even better than I do. I had to get the battery tray in my 187 re-glassed from throwing the battery out of the tray through the side of it. I seriously looked at a Legend at one time. Nice boat, I also know several that ran them for team boats. To my knowledge everyone of those guys went back to Champion and have now went on to other brands. If there is going to be a show on what the two hulls can do I know where I'm putting my money.

As always I DO NOT SUGGEST YOU TRY THIS STUFF WITHOUT PROPER TRAINING!!! It hurts even when done right should be enough of a warning.

[Bassin Bob71]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was on another board discussing a slight accident I had on the water a couple weeks ago Pat. Once again I caught something floating under the water with the skeg of my motor like I did many years ago when I had Champ198 with me. When the nose of the boat hits the water it's called a bow hook for those that have never experienced it. A breech is just a controlled version of this. I was running 65MPH this time. As soon as I felt that familiar bump on the lower unit and the bow fall I knew what was coming and started cranking on the wheel. I did not get it all the way around because the guy with me landed in my lap. He sprung his wrist trying to stay in his seat, mind you this dude weighs 250+. All this happens faster than you can fathom.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

...And to think how many times I've ran the mighty Mississip in the spring with high water levels and tons of floaters (and shallow runners) and not hit anything must mean somebody's been looking out for me. I've seen 'em bobbing along about 6" below the surface but its always the ones you don't see that gitcha. Guys, I'll admit I'm a wuss but I hope to god I never bow hook one like that. That has got to peg the meter for pucker factor.

[btsmbass]

Not trying to start a pissing match fellas. I try to keep nearly everything I say as objective as possible. Of course I am a passionate guy so take it fwiw, but I do think most folks respect what I have to say most of the time. Even for a young cocky a-hole like myself (or at least a mentor of mine refers to me that way).


We all start somewhere right.

[JW210champ]

I never respond to people who get on the Champ page and spout off things that you have here. BUT, If you have handled a 21ft Legend in rough water and drove a 210 Champ, you would not say they handle the same. There is no contest, and you know that is a FACT.

I was at my local Champ dealer 2 weeks ago and saw a 2010 Legend owner walk in, take a 7K loss on his new Legend and walk out with a 210 Champ and was tickled to death about it. His reason, he wanted to be able to walk after fishing a day in rough water. You know what is funny, I saw my dealer at the lake last weekend and he told me a young guy came in who didn't care about the ride. He bought the Legend and called 3 days later and said he beat the passenger console off the boat in rough water that day pre fishing.

Im just sayin...............

[FEARTHETURTLE210]

I can only say that the 210 is a forgiving hull..In rough water if you miss a wave or just spank one it seems to be less of a pounding effect than most other boats. Most guys who own another brand want to think there boat rides great in rough water and usually fall back on how fast there boat is and how they leave Champs in the dust..And to be honest most do leave me at launch..I am just not a speed nut and concern myself with how fast i can get to a spot..But I have yet to ever see anyone pass me when heading back to the ramp in the ole white cap city...All I can say is my 210 lives up to my expectations...doesnt mean other brands don't ride nice but i know what i got in my Champion and thats fine with me...

[btsmbass]

Fellas, fellas, fellas. I never said one thing about the Champs being bad did I? We are all entitled to out opinions right. I was given a loaner 210 Champ for abotu 10 days to prefish and fish a tourney. I can honestly say the ride was no greater than what I own now. That is not a dig my friend.

I am not here to smear guys. All I have to say is get your tail in the seat of MY boat and I think I can enlighten you. I really do enjoy giving demo rides, as far as the folks being impressed. Even champ owners say this handles just like my champ. Get behind the wheel for a week or so and then let me know your true feelings. If you still want to tell me it is a rough riding, falling apart, not worth the money and taking a loss on a new champ boat. Fine with me, but at least give it a fair shot. I can't talk bad about champ and y'all have a fine product. I will say though there are other boats out there that are capable of doing "things" equal to a champ.

[FEARTHETURTLE210]

i agree, i demoed a 2008 Alpha 211 before my 210 and it was the closest thing to the ride and handling of my 210..It is a nice boat,, i got no beef with Legend..Your in the Champion board so I have to say nothing rides like a Champion.....

[Eronningen]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by btsmbass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Most things a champ can do a Legend can do also, I will admit though from the 90"beam boats the 202 and 203 can do some high speed turns a tad quicker and tighter than the Legend. As far as rough water ride, physics, my measurements, and also real world experience in both says they are damn near equals. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is my thoughts as well. I will admit that the older narrow beam, rear tank Champs were the real deal. I know folks with them still and they are a great boat. Going to a mid tank and wider beam to try to please the "majority" really took away from what Champ was known for. The Champs aren't what they used to be. The quote " Nothing rides like a Champ" is probably better suited for the older Champs.
Like I said before though, A Champ beats a Ranger by a long shot though.

[JW210champ]

What made you choose a 210 over a Alpha 211? Just curious.

[pmgoffjr]

Alright boys, let's all flop em out on the bar and see what we've got...

Breach stop? Puhleese. I know that I could do a "impressive" breach stop in just about anything, once you feel where it lets go and make your adjustments from there. Why do you think Don Hancock with skeeter trains their team guys to go *here* to this spot, do this, count to that, and do this. Done, just like a biscuit recipe.

I'd MUCH rather set your butt down and let's go from *here* to *there*...river channels, boat lanes, cruiser wakes....to me performance is defined by the ability to maintain control at *ALL* speeds in *ALL* conditions. That is what separates the pretenders.

In all my time of pimping these things, I've never once had anyone step up with their whatever and take that challenge, someday I hope we can. Competition is always a good thing.

[JohnM]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmgoffjr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright boys, let's all flop em out on the bar and see what we've got...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

UUUHHHH, I may not be able to reach the bar...it's still kinda cold here.

[FEARTHETURTLE210]

JW210 i chose the Champion 210 over the Legend 211 because i felt the 210 had the layout and room the 211 at the time didnt. I didnt like the bowl shaped splashwell felt it shorten the rear deck, the front deck was too narrow, the handling of the 211 was great it drove smooth and responded nicely..I felt 08 211 was lame in its overall feel, it was like a skeeter with its metal lip plates to open lids,,but i must say Legend raised the bar from 08 to 09 models and really did it right.but thats boat makers the minute you look away they completly redesign there boats...I still beleive the 210 rides better than the 211 but if i had to compare a hull to the Champ210 so far a 211 would be a nice ride(not as nice as my 210 but ok), The main reason i didnt get the 211 was because there hulls sit too high out of the water and are just too dam prone to the wind, it was hard to keep the boat from running circles on you..I just like a simple easy to drive boat with a nice ride, all boats are great on a calm day but what separates Champion hulls from all others is the rough water ride, say what you will about the narrow hull Champs and the past but the 210 still has the V-wing hull and so far nobody can touch it..PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Modified by FEARTHETURTLE210 at 4:18 AM 3/10/2010

[Hillsreels]

Several neighbors here on Seminole own Legends, including Pam Martin -Wells ( fishes for Legend)who just fished the classic. I considered the Legend before I located a new 203 LE. I'd love to see them purchase the Champion line,,they do quality work which rivaled the Champions. I just feel the Champion ride is superior. they rank on--two on my short list.

[Jasonrs]

yeah, during the classic they showed her boat from floor between the seats and facing the front deck. The center tackle lid, step up, and little inset in the glass right under the front lip of the front deck lid looked IDENTICAL to my '97 202.....I have never seen one up close to really check them out (Legend). Are these boats layed out like an older Champ?

[Eronningen]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FEARTHETURTLE210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JW210 i chose the Champion 210 over the Legend 211 because i felt the 210 had the layout and room the 211 at the time didnt. I didnt like the bowl shaped splashwell felt it shorten the rear deck, the front deck was too narrow, the handling of the 211 was great it drove smooth and responded nicely..I felt 08 211 was lame in its overall feel, it was like a skeeter with its metal lip plates to open lids,,but i must say Legend raised the bar from 08 to 09 models and really did it right.but thats boat makers the minute you look away they completly redesign there boats...I still beleive the 210 rides better than the 211 but if i had to compare a hull to the Champ210 so far a 211 would be a nice ride(not as nice as my 210 but ok), The main reason i didnt get the 211 was because there hulls sit too high out of the water and are just too dam prone to the wind, it was hard to keep the boat from running circles on you..I just like a simple easy to drive boat with a nice ride, all boats are great on a calm day but what separates Champion hulls from all others is the rough water ride, say what you will about the narrow hull Champs and the past but the 210 still has the V-wing hull and so far nobody can touch it..PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modified by FEARTHETURTLE210 at 4:18 AM 3/10/2010</TD></TR></TABLE>

My 211 sits flatter when fishing than my 198 and 200 Elites did, despite the 211 having a rear tank.
My 211 rides much better than my 198's and 200 Elites. Could be that extra 1.5' in length, but the 211 is a much smoother ride.

[FEARTHETURTLE210]

Keep drinking the Legend cool-aid......Champion hulls are proven winners and to be the best rough water riding hulls for over 30 years..Whether its narrow hull or wide body..your comparing a 21 ft boat to a 19 1/2 ft boat..A foot 1/2 does make a diff. Either way you like your Legend and it is a fine boat, but to say it is a better ride than a 210 well i think thats stretching it..

[Lea]

People, please! There is a reason for so many brands being "out there"! I like one thing, you like another and Joe Smith likes another. Coming into the forums to say "My boat is better than your boat" is not going to resolve a thing, and actually can make things worse because folks get all stirred up.

There are many fine brands on the market. Choose the one which suits you and enjoy it.

[Eronningen]

Its a simple comment. You guys come to the Legend board just the same. And nobody is claiming one is better than another out right. Just having fun debating and comparing. It didn't seem too out of control Lea? Lea, you're typically the first to come to other forums and defend your brand and thats fine but come on.

I just can't stomach the Champion ride being soo superior. Years ago, yes. Now, its alot closer than you might want to believe. Thats all.

[Lea]

I was not referring to anyone coming in to any particular forum. It was a general statement. Please don't misinterpret what I said. You guys are more than welcome in here. I am just saying that anyone posting anywhere that his brand is better than a different brand, is really not doing his own brand any favors.

I have been staying out of any other forums lately, so my intentions won't be mis-understood. That's why I posted that we were all friends, right? Legend makes a great boat, and so do other makers. It's all a matter of personal preference. And arguing about it will not change that.

[mixermarkb]

"I just can't stomach the Champion ride being soo superior. Years ago, yes. Now, its alot closer than you might want to believe."

I don't doubt this statement at all.

I also can't express how sad the truth in that statement makes me.

Was having a conversation with a current charger owner, former owner of 6 champions, about how similar the z series rangers are to current champions. I know marketing is king, and bigger and wider is better, but it is sad to see all the varied designs sort of get blended into one. Not trying to stir up stuff here, and kind of just rambling. I guess I just hope someone with a true drive to restore the glory of our brand steps up and buys us.