Bass recruitment numbers.

[MichAngler]

Ahh yes. The jobby nooner flotilla. They tried that crap up here on Torch lake in 2014. It didn't go well for them. The township enacted old written laws about large parties with Dj and or band music on the lake that now require permitting that the township will never give. Thank god! They also put up no parking signs along crystal beach road to deter the vast amounts of folks from being able to park on that road and leave their trash all over it . They were literally breaking into people's cottages parking in their driveways, using their properties to access the lake. It's too bad they can't figure out a way to enact this down on St Clare.

Jobbie Nooner has nothing on the raft off these days it’s a one day event that has grown into an every weekend deal and has spawned dozens of other events in shallow spawning waters on the lake

raft.jpg

Imagine what this does to a spawning area if it happened a couple times a year
This was 2019 (it’s first time) and it’s like this almost every weekend now with even more boats
It’s so bad last year a woman was injured and they had to have the coast guard helicopter get her out
Go into Little Muscamoot Bay and take a look at all the trash and prop trails “So many prop trails”
There used to be thousands of beds back there now you’re lucky to see more than a hundred
The good thing is water levels are dropping and soon larger boats may not be able to go back there

But to the OP’s point
In Decades past during the spawn if you didn’t catch 100 fish in a day hell a few hours you were doing it wrong and it had been that way for as long as I fished the lake so my opinion is fishing pressure effects them very little but now with the decline in numbers of bass people are trying to point the finger at anglers when they are not the culprits

[havacman]

Catch weigh and release vs carrying spawners in a live well has to be better, jmo only. I am not put any organization against another both tournament trails have the ability to do and have done it and that could be done during the spawn. We have a lake about 40 minutes away that has held tournaments about every night in the summer for as long as I can remember and it just keeps pumping out the weights. I think some bodies of water are affected more than others. Without some people keeping their catches for the table like most use to, and some mortality rate the balance would be much worse with over population.

[mattmann7]

Every mating pair that spawns needs to have a minimum of 2 fry to reach adulthood to replace them in the chain. If states choose to allow fishing during the spawn to increase sportfishing and drive revenue then they need to adopt a business model like Texas. Recruit fish with the genetics that make them larger than the average population and have a breeding/restocking program. Be proactive its a renewable resource.

[SKfishing]

I don’t think you watched very closely. The lake that has been under study for decades, with a declining smallmouth population as out of season fishing has increased is in Ontario. The data is very compelling. If the experiments work it would allow open season on bass in most of the lake area while closing a small portion through mid-July.

Look at the chart around the 35-36 minute mark. He lumps 4 years together, then 3 5 year groupings, then another 4 years, then 2 single years which makes a nice pretty curve showing a decline. Why do this instead of plot every year? Because it hides how variable these numbers actually are and it likely hides some big years that are counter to his hypothesis. There are other examples. The whole presentation made me cringe.

[MI bassassassin]

Look at the chart around the 35-36 minute mark. He lumps 4 years together, then 3 5 year groupings, then another 4 years, then 2 single years which makes a nice pretty curve showing a decline. Why do this instead of plot every year? Because it hides how variable these numbers actually are and it likely hides some big years that are counter to his hypothesis. There are other examples. The whole presentation made me cringe.

The singles greatest influence to spawning recruitment is the weather which as we all know is different every year. You have to include all years otherwise any report is and should be considered biased.

[ColtonM]

I listed to Ken Duke on Bass After Dark the other day and he had 4 biologists on strictly talking about this topic. The general agreement was that bed fishing and moving the fish does not have a huge impact. Even though we see so many tournaments in todays time that we still do not take enough fish out to hurt anything.

[Bobby Gray]

On the TVA system.. I'm a firm believer that water level fluctuations effect recruitment far more than bed fishing or tournaments.

[Mcjenson]

On the TVA system.. I'm a firm believer that water level fluctuations affect recruitment far more than bed fishing or tournaments.

100%. Dropping water at the wrong time can lose the majority of a years spawn. Guys bed fishing affects a tiny percentage.

[Barca_Veloce]

We have property on a 105 acre lake. It used to be a decent lake to fish until a group of 6 otters arrived. They have a daily hunting pattern and have destroyed the bass fishing. There were places that fish would bed annually and they just aren't there any longer. I wish the state would do something about it.

[BigFishSteve]

Great summary and report. And I agree. Just one or two out of so many it pretty trivial. That why I don't sweat the evening news.

[SKfishing]

I listed to Ken Duke on Bass After Dark the other day and he had 4 biologists on strictly talking about this topic. The general agreement was that bed fishing and moving the fish does not have a huge impact. Even though we see so many tournaments in todays time that we still do not take enough fish out to hurt anything.

Excellent discussion, much more inline with how I see things for the vast majority of lakes.

[SKfishing]

Look at the chart around the 35-36 minute mark. He lumps 4 years together, then 3 5 year groupings, then another 4 years, then 2 single years which makes a nice pretty curve showing a decline. Why do this instead of plot every year? Because it hides how variable these numbers actually are and it likely hides some big years that are counter to his hypothesis. There are other examples. The whole presentation made me cringe.

5BBCB532-3F03-45F6-97EC-9FB9A37B65AB.jpeg
For those interested, this is what typical recruitment data looks like. This is over 30 years of data taken from the Kentucky waters of Kentucky and Barkley Lakes. The lakes are connected by a canal, but have significant differences. It is interesting that the recruitment in each mirrors the other and also note that a big year is almost never followed by another big year, likely because of competition with the larger prior year class. According to Dr. Phillips hypothesis, fishing pressure must vary dramatically each year on these lakes in a similar fashion. I don’t see it.

The chart was taken from a FB video about what happened to the grass in KY Lake.
https://fb.watch/sergLbkk_5/

[juice780]

I’m glad I live in the south where we have no closed season and fishing during the spawn doesn’t seem to have any impact on our fisheries.

[mattmann7]

I will still voice my opinion that weed / habitat eradication on a wholesle scale does more to impact a fishery than tournaments. It will be the final reason I hang it up and after giving it another try this past Tuesday I am closer to quitting then continuing. 90 percent of how I learned to bass fish since 1988 is directly relating to weed location on a lake. Tuesdays location for the tournament was a spot I mastered. Next Tuesdays spot also. Both have been nearly totally weed sprayed. Its like batting right handed for 36 years and being told you have to bat lefty. I can physically swing but anything I hit is pure luck. I have better things to do than play the futility game. I set myself apart a long time ago by getting away from bank fishing only to have my style voided by the lake associations demanding that the waters are sprayed till pristine of weeds. The fisheries biologists are fully aware and turn a deaf ear. Years ago petitions were signed on issues brought up by bass fisherman and they responded by sending the maps of hiking locations in the state. In other words take a hike. We dont care about you but keep buying licenses so we can build hiking trails.

[juice780]

I will still voice my opinion that weed / habitat eradication on a wholesle scale does more to impact a fishery than tournaments. It will be the final reason I hang it up and after giving it another try this past Tuesday I am closer to quitting then continuing. 90 percent of how I learned to bass fish since 1988 is directly relating to weed location on a lake. Tuesdays location for the tournament was a spot I mastered. Next Tuesdays spot also. Both have been nearly totally weed sprayed. It’s like batting right handed for 36 years and being told you have to bat lefty. I can physically swing but anything I hit is pure luck. I have better things to do than play the futility game. I set myself apart a long time ago by getting away from bank fishing only to have my style voided by the lake associations demanding that the waters are sprayed till pristine of weeds. The fisheries biologists are fully aware and turn a deaf ear. Years ago petitions were signed on issues brought up by bass fisherman and they responded by sending the maps of hiking locations in the state. In other words take a hike. We dont care about you but keep buying licenses so we can build hiking trails.

Don’t move around here. We don’t have grass and if any starts growing they are quick to spray it.

[Quillback]

I will still voice my opinion that weed / habitat eradication on a wholesle scale does more to impact a fishery than tournaments. It will be the final reason I hang it up and after giving it another try this past Tuesday I am closer to quitting then continuing. 90 percent of how I learned to bass fish since 1988 is directly relating to weed location on a lake. Tuesdays location for the tournament was a spot I mastered. Next Tuesdays spot also. Both have been nearly totally weed sprayed. Its like batting right handed for 36 years and being told you have to bat lefty. I can physically swing but anything I hit is pure luck. I have better things to do than play the futility game. I set myself apart a long time ago by getting away from bank fishing only to have my style voided by the lake associations demanding that the waters are sprayed till pristine of weeds. The fisheries biologists are fully aware and turn a deaf ear. Years ago petitions were signed on issues brought up by bass fisherman and they responded by sending the maps of hiking locations in the state. In other words take a hike. We dont care about you but keep buying licenses so we can build hiking trails.

We have a local lake here that had a hydrilla explosion. The lake is managed by the POA and they did some spraying around docks and "mowed" the hydrilla to keep it topping out at about 2 feet below the surface. The bass fishing was fantastic. Then they got a little too aggressive trying to manage the hydrilla by stocking a bunch of grass carp. Those carp completely cleaned out the hydrilla, and the bass fishing is much worse.

[Fireball]

I’m glad I live in the south where we have no closed season and fishing during the spawn doesn’t seem to have any impact on our fisheries.

You might want to travel to Lake Erie so you can compare SM fishing here to any bass fishing you have NC. You probably will be shocked on the vast versatile fishing our two Great Lakes (Erie and Ontario) and the Niagara River have. Some of our perch are bigger than most southern bass. There is no closed season on SM bass in Erie in NYS waters and I believe in Ohio too.

[mattmann7]

You might want to travel to Lake Erie so you can compare SM fishing here to any bass fishing you have NC. You probably will be shocked on the vast versatile fishing our two Great Lakes (Erie and Ontario) and the Niagara River have. Some of our perch are bigger than most southern bass. There is no closed season on SM bass in Erie in NYS waters and I believe in Ohio too.

When I worked part time at Cabelas about 10 years ago I met 2 people. One is a current Elite Pro. The other a gentlman from New York. I struck a fishing conversation with him. I thought I knew some things about fishing from my tournament experiences in 3 states. Then he told me specifically where he was from and I freely admitted nothing I had ever done could compare to the oppurtunities he had in the areas where he came from. I said with no gest that he has been doing real fishing compared to all my experiences. I have not even been to that area of New York from Albany to Erie and beyond but am well aware of the legendary fishing. Thats the real deal IMO. There may be single locations that compare in part but regionally it would be hard to find a comparison in the main 48.

[bassfisher444]

You might want to travel to Lake Erie so you can compare SM fishing here to any bass fishing you have NC. You probably will be shocked on the vast versatile fishing our two Great Lakes (Erie and Ontario) and the Niagara River have. Some of our perch are bigger than most southern bass. There is no closed season on SM bass in Erie in NYS waters and I believe in Ohio too.

Lake Erie was nearly dead until the Gobies came, it exploded after that. Has very little to do with the closed seasons.

[lakebouef5]

Grass provides the cover for large groups of juvenile fish to survive and grow. Fabled Lake Cataoutche is a great example...the Lake KVD won his last Classic on in 2011, is a shadow of those years. That was the last year for the grass.