Muzzleloader Debate

[Bug Bunny]

A lounge thread got me to thinking. Was wondering what everyone's take was on it. . . . . . .


As you know, MS has a VERY liberal interpretation of "primitive weapon" season. So how do you fel about it? Me, personally, I hunt with a handi-rifle for several reasons and enjoy the debate "muzzleloader" hunters give about it not being primitive. My argument is it is a FINE line between my .444 marlin and say a T/C Encore shooting pyrodex pellets, barnes sabots and 209 primers with a high powered scope atop it. Anyway, what do you guys think?????


I will say to the guys shooting flintlocks, if there are any, that they do have a valid argument!!!!

[Derek B]

I personally was glad to see the new law... and now after letting it sink in and possibly where it could lead, I don't agree with it. I'll hunt with what is legal, but there is nothing primitive about single shot season. As long as they do not mess with archery season I'll be ok. There have been many heated debates on the mdwfp forum about this topic.

[Bug Bunny]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mdb128 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'll hunt with what is legal, but there is nothing primitive about single shot season. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Do you also agree that there is little "primitive" about the "new age" set-up either???

[dirtmonkey]

I'm just glad all y'all go to the trees and leave all the water to me...

[Whiskey]

it was no longer primitive to me when you were allowed to mount a scope on it. Let's go back to iron sights. Heck my smoke pole is zeored at 200 yds now there is nothing primitive bout that but that is what the rules allow us to do but then again I rarely deer hunt!

[haveme1]

I personally don't care one way or another.
I understand the rules are made ..not for the hunter but for the management of the deer herds(and the gun makers, thanks to the lobbyist).
Making inlines and the single shooters legal was to increase the harvest. (Why have a muzzeloader season at all? Sale of the guns. IMO)
I'm hearing that the harvest has gone way above what was planed and the law allowing the .357+'s may be over turned.
I have a Knight Extreme that I have hunted with during regular season because it's so nice to shoot.
I can't see buying a 150.00 gun for 300.00 ..... that'll kick the chit outa me !

Remington 7600 .280 and Knight, Disk, 50 cal

[del]

I think it went wrong by allowing scopes on the rifles. The inline craze started snowballing with the "pro guys on tv" and now everyone has to have an Encore. The old style sidelocks are not as good as the new inlines, or so they say.
Then the legislature goes one better and allows the singleshot rifles in on "primative" season. Inlines and singleshots are not primative weapons.
I don't like them being used during primative season but they are now legal. I think some folks think they can stretch the shot with the new rifles because the are modern. Not so.
I wish Mississippi had the law Pennsilvania has flinters only. just my 2 cents.

[Derek B]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bug Bunny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Do you also agree that there is little "primitive" about the "new age" set-up either???</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope... the new muzzeloaders aren't primitive. I started muzzeloader hunting when the Knight inlines started coming out. I killed my first primitive weapon deer with a Thompson Center .54 caliber, side hammer and iron sites... it was fun. Then moved up to a CVA topped with a Nikon scope.

I remember going with my dad with his old octagon barrel. He never killed much with it but shot at a bunch. My uncle still uses his from time to time.

[del]

I agree the new ones are not primative. I wish I had another side lock .54 T/C. That thing is a meatstick. anyone got one of those old no good side locks let me know, I might help ya by taking out of your gun cabinate to make room for a new inline.

[Bug Bunny]

I just personally get a kick out of the guy looking at my handi-rifle and belittling it saying how that's no primitive weapon and out comes his T/C Pro Hunter muzzleloader, pyrodex pellets, "hot" barnes sabots, 209 primers and sitting atop is a $1000 swarovski scope!!!!!!


Now, if he comes out with a true flintlock, I'll gladly shake his hand and tell him he has a VERY VALID argument!!!!

[skeeterbug25]

well i dont have a 444 or a 4570. all i have is a old school thompson side hammer 50cal smoke pole. i did kill one yesterday with my buddies 444 that i sighted in for him and i must say i will have one next year cause i get tired of cleanin that damn smoke pole everytime i shoot one but they are fun to hunt with. i have also had some good bucks get away with that smoke pole because they were just beyond range. Will end with this there is nothing primitive about it anymore so shoot whatever you want.

[Bug Bunny]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skeeterbug25 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i dont have a 444 or a 4570. all i have is a old school thompson side hammer 50cal smoke pole. i did kill one yesterday with my buddies 444 that i sighted in for him and i must say i will have one next year cause i get tired of cleanin that damn smoke pole everytime i shoot one but they are fun to hunt with. i have also had some good bucks get away with that smoke pole because they were just beyond range. Will end with this there is nothing primitive about it anymore so shoot whatever you want.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I haven't brought my "rifle" out in over 2 years since getting that lil .444!!! Just a fun gun to me and 90% of the places I hunt are under 100 yards shot so it's fine!!! And I personally think that the theory of "a bigger bullet is a better bullet" is not debatable!!!!

[skeeterbug25]

i use the big gun alot of times where i hunt cause where i hunt a 200yd shot is not uncommon. some places you can shoot as far as you feel comfortable.

[basspastor]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 178cajun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree the new ones are not primative. I wish I had another side lock .54 T/C. That thing is a meatstick. anyone got one of those old no good side locks let me know, I might help ya by taking out of your gun cabinate to make room for a new inline.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I sold a couple of guns I traded for A couple of months ago I decided ti try the Muzzleloader. I bought a T/C White Mountain .50 Carbine 6 1/2 lbs. It is a flintlock so true blue all the way. Opening day in Texas I dropped a Deer a 63 yds. hit in the neck; I love. Now looking for a nice percussion rifle I can put a scope on. Oh yeah; I also bought a Tradition's Pennsylvania, it is too pretty to take to the woods.



Modified by basspastor at 1:17 PM 12/14/2009

[del]

Rub it in rub it in Preach! Congrats on the deer and nice rifles. I'm kinda glad others don't like the old way, more rifles for us who do. &lt;&gt;&lt; del

[haveme1]

I was just reading Mississippi Sportsman and this is something interesting ....

The upgraded new primitive

The next move by the state became the most liberal step ever toward expanding the definition of primitive weapons. In the fall of 2005, a new class of firearms was deemed “primitive” that for the first time included single-shot, breech-loading rifles with exposed hammers that could utilize metallic cartridge, primer-driven, smokeless ammunition. They just had to be .38 caliber or larger.

Initially, the rifles had to be of an original design, replica, re-introduction or reproduction of a type produced prior to 1900. Examples were rifles such as the Sharps and the 1885 Winchester. Interchangeable barrel rifles such as the TC Encore were not approved.

Confusion abounded from day one. Initial communication about the rules was nil. Dealers and hunters alike were confused. Everyone searched dealers’ shelves for metallic cartridge rifles that would meet these criteria, but frankly the dealers weren’t ready for the deluge. Ironically, there were not that many rifles available that fit the mold of the rules.

Then, amazingly, the word spread that the H&R break-open type rifles met the criteria. To this day, it is not clear how this approval got started, but it sure opened the floodgates.

A little research certainly would have revealed that this brand of rifle was not designed or produced prior to 1900, but by then, the cat was way out of the bag. In the ensuing months, literally thousands of these rifles were sold, and the factory got behind by thousands of orders.

“I started getting orders on the phone every day, because clearly hunters were eager to take on the primitive season using these firearms,” said Don Cresswell of World Wide Firearms in Flora. “The first season under this rule, I ordered as many H&R rifles as I could get my hands on, and I think I sold almost a thousand of them.”

It certainly was a boon to dealers.

The most popular chambering was the .45-70. Hunters quickly learned these lightweight rifles kicked at both ends, but did the job. Then word came that hunters could use optical scopes on these new primitive firearms. Hundreds more hunters joined the ranks of hunting the primitive seasons, which was a good thing to help with the overall statewide deer management program.

In 2008, the rules were fine-tuned again. The caliber requirement was reduced to .35, opening the door to the .35 Whelen. [B]The rifle’s need to be of a design prior to 1900 was dropped.[B/] Also rifles with interchangeable barrels were included.

[Bug Bunny]

Yeah, the only gun that I think should be on the list that isn't is the ruger no.1!!!!! I know it doesn't have an exposed hammer but really, what's the freaking difference? Just change it to read single shot season and be done with it!!!!