ooh, I likey.Originally Posted by MonteSS
hmmmmm - perhaps a Navico end game/the real reason Navico is pushing hard; or, just a don't f#&* with my stuff?
(maybe - Panoptix IS that good ... ?)
Anyway, better'n a soap opera (except Dark Shadows, of course).
Do not take your half in the middle ....
I wish that Garmin has just paid Navico for the rights to start with and then made the best product they could. Raymarine did that and quite a few people claim that Dragonfly does better down imaging than Lowrance. We, the customers, would have been better served, this mess would have been avoided and the Garmin brand wouldn't have been damaged. Water over the dam.
Bail on Garmin. Haha!!. I make my decisions based on what I want in performance, not whose name is on it. Absolutely no way I would give up 7610, Panoptix, Garmin 2d or my GT8, GT50 and GT51 transducers. Also not giving up my HDS running 83 kHz or my Vexilar Edge3. There are specific circumstances where each helps me find or catch more fish.
I can't say enough good things about the Vexilar company. Perfect score on customer support in my book. Lowrance burned a ton of other people in the past and me specifically. I still have and use Lowrance. I regret they treated customers in the past the way they did, but the 83 kHz is still a stellar performer, sometimes unbelievable. I did get mad at them but I'm not going to spend extra money on something else just because the box says Lowrance on it. There are Garmin customers who justly feel short-changed over the DownVu/ClearVu fiasco. I'm not one of them. I have the GT xd's.
About all that I can say is that each unit I have, regardless of brand, performs the specific functions that I bought them for. I did return a Raymarine product after it did not perform as expected and as customer support said it would before the purchase. But I bought it from Cabelas so there was no hassle returning it. That when I began researching Garmin and ended up with the 7610. I am very pleased with my current setup.
There are two things I want that I don't have. First, a cheap 5-6 degree high wattage transducer. I'm to cheap to shell out the money for one of the big Airmar's that would do this. Second, I wish the technology would improve to the point that a fish on the bottom would be differentiated from a rock on the bottom next to it. Once upon a time I bought a Genetron GT9 because quite a few claimed it would do this. It did not.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
Then what exactly is Customs and Border Patrol going to be stopping at the border? They did say they were stopping all imports of the items in question. Everyone already agreed that the CV transducers and bundles were ok. so whats left to block except the GT transducers and/or MFD's?????
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. So it's illegal by the ruling, for Garmin to sell a bundled unit that does down view, but it is legal for Garmin to sell a clear view bundled unit, that doesn't do true down imaging, and then sell you a Garmin branded down view transducer that does true down imaging. So they just use a loophole to use Navico's technology, and the end result is the same. I'm surprised Navico doesn't pursue shutting that down as well.
Garmin should have taken the legal route and licensed the technology in the beginning. Instead they stole it, got caught, changed their bundled transducer, to legally get around the ruling, and hid the truth to their own customers, portraying it like that the changes to the transducer was an improvement, when it was actually a downgrade to comply with the ruling. And then made it known that the MFD unit still was capable of using true down imaging, with a separately purchased Garmin GT transducer.
Shame on them.
Raymarine is where my money would go. Been using their units on my salt water boats for as long as I can remember. They make damn fine products and don't bullshit their customers.
I mean, if Garmin won't be able to import GT transducers any longer, and if they want to keep importing units, you can bet your sweet ass that a software update will be coming down the line that disables the use of GT transducers, or severely nerfs it's capabilities. How else would they get past an import ban unless they alter the software? Think about it.
If that happens at least those of us with working units and GT transducers will see a nice bump in resale value. lol
Thats exactly what Navico is doing and it sure sounds like thats what the CBP is going to do - block imports of all GT transducers and MFD that do downview.
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2017/0...n-patent-case/
“CBP issued its own 47-page decision, independent of the ITC judge’s 76-page decision,” Navico CEO Leif Ottosson told Trade Only Today in an email. “Both arrived at the same conclusion: that Garmin’s tilted design products infringe Navico’s patents. In Navico’s view, Garmin may no longer import or sell its GT-series DownVu transducers or head units capable of operating with such transducers.”
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
that made my day.
there is nothing to stop at the border. gt transducers are not a part of this lawsuit. never was. clearvu replaced all affected products
you guys are mistaken. gt transducers were never included in any of this. only transducers that were bundled with a unit
Like the old boy said in the Hemi commercials::"we are about to find out"
We all understand that that is Garmins position - but - please explain why they were hit two weeks ago with the largest fine in history AND what exactly is Customs and Border Patrol stopping at the border?
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
you would have to ask them. i think youre reading it wrong. possible just making sure they are not attempting to import more units bundled with transducers with a down element? Guess ill hold on to these gt transducers to see if the prices go up
From my perspective, here is what NAVICO is trying to do and has already legally won, or hopes to pursue:
*Garmin can no longer sell SI/DI bundles with a down facing element, even if it is tilted. Must be a CV xd with no down facing element in the box. DownVu becomes ClearVu. Garmin complies with this, but it created some bad PR.
*Garmin GT Transducers, even with a tilted down view element, violate the patent according to NAVICO and should not be imported/sold in North America.
*Garmin SI/DI head units capable of utilizing a down facing element violate the patent according to NAVICO and should not be imported/sold in North America.
So what would that leave for Garmin to sell in NA? ClearVu transducers (SI elements only or DI element only), and DI only head units or SI/DI head units with blended DI. Panoptix is not at all part of this....(but you could just see that being a negotiating piece as some have indicated)...
I would think the only enforceable pieces are what the ITC has ruled on, and Garmin has already complied with. Time will tell on the others....but NAVICO is certainly doing a good job of putting Garmin in a corner.
The big issue is how does this affect consumers and retailers. NAVICO must smell blood from the CV xd fall-out and the timing could not be better for making these statements; enforceable or not. Perception is reality....who wants to purchase an $800-$1000 unit only to lose true DI on the next software upgrade? Or if I need a new xd I will only be able to purchase/exchange/warranty for a CV xd? And didn't Garmin already make false claims/statements about their CV xd's and left consumers hung out to dry...? Might make consumers think twice....Good time for a price drop/rebate from Lowrance, et al...?
As stated, I have Garmin and I find it easy to use and perfect for my application. And I have a CV xd....
Gt transducers sold seperatly have never been a part of any law suite I've seen and they can't disable anything with a software upgrade if you don't install it
I totally agree with this but I think all new MFD's imported will have software that does not allow use of a GT transducer.
Not a lawyer, and not completely familiar with all the litigation, but a quick search pulled up a civil action from November 2016...Case 2:16-cv-00190
28. Garmin’s Accused Products fall into the categories of products, or portions of
products, that are generally referred to by Garmin as fishfinders, fishfinders/GPS combos,
chartplotter/sonar combos, transducers, and/or sonar modules. In operation, these products
generally include a head unit that has a display, electronics that are located either in the head unit
or a sonar module, and a transducer that includes a linear transducer element and a circular
transducer element. Upon information and belief, Garmin’s current versions of the Accused
Products are found in Garmin’s 2016 Marine Catalog
NAVICO lists (24) requests for relief including going after Garmin for false advertising pertaining to ClearVu and its ability to see under the boat.....
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