Need help choosing panoptix transducer

[jfishbones]

I just picked up a 93SV Chirp and primarily fish walleye trolling in the great lakes 10-30 FOW.
I was hoping for a little wider 2D beam angle for marking suspended fish at speed before setting lines.
Is the GT52 my best option? Thats what came with the unit.
Also, I want panoptix, love the 3D view forward. I cant decide, I think the PS31 would be best for me to mount on my trolling motor but I read some posts that say the PS30 may be best for walleye guys. Looking for thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated. Getting ready to start rigging for spring.

[LWINCHESTER2]

In 10 to 30 FOW, I'd recommend either the PS31 or PS21. Probably the PS21 on a stick. I don't troll so I am speaking out of school. Need Gary to chime in.

[Larry3215]

I agree. That shallow you need to be looking further away to see them before you get there. I also agree on using a stick of some sort rather than on the trolling motor. That way you can point the transducer independently of the direction the trolling motor is pointing while you are trolling.

[MonteSS]

3D forward view is pretty lame. I doubt anyone uses it.

[azbohunter]

I agree, Gary, Treeguy, needs to chime in. He is a nerd on walleye and electronics.
I fish walleye some, use PS31 and like it but I am not sure it is best choice. If trolling forward, pulling boards etc maybe, if you are a back troller then maybe PS30 and Gary has experience with that and all the others.

[jfishbones]

Thanks for all the info. I primarily troll with drop rods on each side and 3-4 boards out each side.
I was thinking the 3D front view with the PS31 would be cool for seeing whats in front and telling me if their are fish in the area.
With a 2D 60 degree sonar on the transom your only looking at 10ft of bottom in 10 FOW which is almost impossible to mark fish.
Hoping to mark fish at speed with 2D and find active schools, setup on them and use the panoptix to validate they are in front of me and possibly moving off to the sides on approach and thus not getting picked up by 2D.
Always found Down and Side imaging on my Birds not very useful for seeing suspended fish so I dont even use them.

[jfishbones]

Question, do they work ok on the trolling motor? I ask because I use an Ulterra to self deploy in rough water so I would prefer to not have to go to bow to work the stick but have the Panoptix attached to the Motor.

[Treeguyus]

Let me say thanks for the vote of confidence. Have two boats with panoptix, one a Lund 2025 and the 2nd a Crestliner 17' all tillers.

2025 has a PS-30 on the transom and a PS-31 mounted on my terrova. The trolling speed of my gas engine is set about .5 mph below desired speed and use the terrova to make up the difference, facilitates steering with the terrova. Remember the steering is from the rear (tiller). I like 3d forward on the 31 and live vu. When I see fish forward of the boat I troll towards them or by moving the terrova with the wireless remote or I-Pilot link also I can point towards the shallow and see the distance to the weed line for example to anticipate change in contour or weed line and distance to it. The PS-30 will show fish as I go over them and will spot fish 15-20 off each side.

The Crestliner has a PS-30 on transom and a PS-31 pointed back wards. Always like the PS-30 for vertical jigging, the directional back on the 30 helps when trolling with down riggers watching baits close to the down rigger ball. The PS-31 pointed backwards is pretty darn slick. Can see a trolled crank bait on lead core with some fine tuning also can see how the fish react to the bait as it is trolled and very useful in determining depth crankbait is running at and adjust accordingly. Also on 3D when back trolling can lay out the contour before getting there, allows for precise boat control along a weed line for example or ledge. Added a Minnkota hand control trolling motor on the bow, thinking to a put a ps-21 on it. Can use it directionally when fishing from the bow. Or lock it forward when trolling.

Don't underestimate 3D for laying a basic contour either when back trolling or forward trolling. I have a da ducer stick on the 2025 but use it for DS/SS with a LSS-2 and 50-200 khz 455-800 kHz HDI, like the narrow cone angle with the 200 KHZ for pinpointing fish. But for trolling at 2 mph the stick moves with the LSS-2 so eliminates side scan effectiveness so I go with the 455 or 800 on the HDI ducer.

You will find as I have that using 2d will be less and less to find active schools. Time will help you gain confidence on what your seeing. 2D is history and panoptix is what to come.

Hope I did not confuse you. If so more then willing to speak on the phone to help.... simple answer the PS-30 and PS-31 works well for trolling. For some reason won't allow me to load photos. However search my threads you will see some of my photos....hey thanks for the heads up and hope it helps.

[Treeguyus]

Question, do they work ok on the trolling motor? I ask because I use an Ulterra to self deploy in rough water so I would prefer to not have to go to bow to work the stick but have the Panoptix attached to the Motor.

No experience with the Ulterra but thought having a transducer and wire along the shaft gets complex, with my terrova I use a bow mount lift. When I leave the access deploy motor and have it up as far as the left allows. Then raise and lower with a switch as I arrive at spots, love it as when I move the gps is always on and can record a track if wanted. The ulterra does not allow for this, stored position GPS is off.

So with the terrova and a bow mount lift go the bow once when I launch and again when I trailer or go to the harbor. Don't get me wrong the Ulterra is slick but like the bow lift for how I fish.

[fishfood]

With the PS31 mounted rearward what width are you able to look at? Can you see both cranks trolled on different sides of the boat?

I have some guys here that are getting ready to test the ps30 for cat-fishing, (50-100lbs or so). They also "drag" baits in 50-100 foot of water at approximately 50-70 feet behind the boat and wonder if the ps30 will be able to see them. The different modes in the PS31 might be a better choice?

Thanks
James

[Larry3215]

The PS30 specs list the beam width as 120x120 deg.

That means that in 100 ft of water, you can see up to a max of 173 ft behind the boat. That will be the extreme edge of the beam though so I would expect some loss of performance at the extreme.

In 50 ft of water, you will see half that distance or about 86 ft as a max.

Im assuming that you will have to electronically tilt the beam to the rear to get to that angle, but Im not 100% sure on that.

The PS31 is also listed as haveing a beam width of 120x120. That means that at a distance of 70 ft, the max beam width is 242 ft wide. Unless your lures are spread waaaaaay out, I think you will be able to see them - maybe. Lures dont always show up at those distances, but fish should show easily.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Just to be clear. The PS30 is not 120x120 all at one time. The 120x120 is the range of adjustment. It's 120 wide all the time. The beam front to back can be set to either 10,20 or 40. Then the angle can be set to point up to 40 degrees fore or aft. 40 degree fore to aft makes 80 degrees for the range of the center of the cone settings. If set to a 40 degree cone then that adds 20 on each end to the range. That's my math, not Garmin's, so I could be way off because the same math don't seem to work for the PS31. The transmit angle port to starboard is 30 degrees each way instead of the expected 40 that the PS30 has fore and aft.

I don't completely get the angle adjustment stuff on the PS21 yet. I've mounted it at all kinds of angles and can always see surface activity. Not a big deal though. Makes it kind of foolproof when it seems to work no matter what I do to it. On it though I tend to think the 45 degree mounting angle suggested is what to do.

[azbohunter]

I run the PS 31 and have it mounted on a stick near my tiller so that I can pan with it. I do some trolling for striper and chinook. I have not had as much luck tracking trolled baits as I was hoping for but maybe I need to play with it more. The one thing I have found that with it mounted as I have it near the tiller, when vertical jigging I can watch my bait and the way the fish respond to my presentation. In trolling for salmon and using large flasher/dodger, I am able to tell how deep it is running when it is behind the boat up to maybe 50 feet. From what Gary has reported about the PS 30 and trolling/back trolling, for my fishing style, I think that may have been a better choice for me.

[Larry3215]

Thanks for the correction. Garmin doesnt make it clear about the beam needing to be steered to achieve those cone angles, but I should have guessed it. It also seems to me that the math doesnt add up either.

I probably shouldn't have posted since I dont have either one to play with myself.

In theory, if Garmins specs are close to accurate, he should be able to see his baits with either unit by playing with the settings - maybe :)

The PS30 specs list the beam width as 120x120 deg.

That means that in 100 ft of water, you can see up to a max of 173 ft behind the boat. That will be the extreme edge of the beam though so I would expect some loss of performance at the extreme.

In 50 ft of water, you will see half that distance or about 86 ft as a max.

Im assuming that you will have to electronically tilt the beam to the rear to get to that angle, but Im not 100% sure on that.

The PS31 is also listed as haveing a beam width of 120x120. That means that at a distance of 70 ft, the max beam width is 242 ft wide. Unless your lures are spread waaaaaay out, I think you will be able to see them - maybe. Lures dont always show up at those distances, but fish should show easily.

[jfishbones]

No experience with the Ulterra but thought having a transducer and wire along the shaft gets complex, with my terrova I use a bow mount lift. When I leave the access deploy motor and have it up as far as the left allows. Then raise and lower with a switch as I arrive at spots, love it as when I move the gps is always on and can record a track if wanted. The ulterra does not allow for this, stored position GPS is off.

So with the terrova and a bow mount lift go the bow once when I launch and again when I trailer or go to the harbor. Don't get me wrong the Ulterra is slick but like the bow lift for how I fish.

Here is what i am thinking of using, scroll all the way down to the cable guard system, pretty slick.

http://precisionsonar.com/products/

[jfishbones]

Great info from everyone, thanks.
Treeguyus, I do almost exactly what you do, 2050 Crestliner, gas kicker, ipilot with speed difference on the Ulterra.
When you say PS31 pointed backwards, do you mean off the terrova or do you have a PS31 on the transom of the Crestliner?
With boards running 80-100 ft out and 40-80 ft off boards do you think you could see cranks? That would be really cool.

I ultimately would really like to find a way to mark fish at speed (20mph or so) with a wider beam / coverage but seems like the market is not there yet or at least not for shallow water.

Let me say thanks for the vote of confidence. Have two boats with panoptix, one a Lund 2025 and the 2nd a Crestliner 17' all tillers.

2025 has a PS-30 on the transom and a PS-31 mounted on my terrova. The trolling speed of my gas engine is set about .5 mph below desired speed and use the terrova to make up the difference, facilitates steering with the terrova. Remember the steering is from the rear (tiller). I like 3d forward on the 31 and live vu. When I see fish forward of the boat I troll towards them or by moving the terrova with the wireless remote or I-Pilot link also I can point towards the shallow and see the distance to the weed line for example to anticipate change in contour or weed line and distance to it. The PS-30 will show fish as I go over them and will spot fish 15-20 off each side.

The Crestliner has a PS-30 on transom and a PS-31 pointed back wards. Always like the PS-30 for vertical jigging, the directional back on the 30 helps when trolling with down riggers watching baits close to the down rigger ball. The PS-31 pointed backwards is pretty darn slick. Can see a trolled crank bait on lead core with some fine tuning also can see how the fish react to the bait as it is trolled and very useful in determining depth crankbait is running at and adjust accordingly. Also on 3D when back trolling can lay out the contour before getting there, allows for precise boat control along a weed line for example or ledge. Added a Minnkota hand control trolling motor on the bow, thinking to a put a ps-21 on it. Can use it directionally when fishing from the bow. Or lock it forward when trolling.

Don't underestimate 3D for laying a basic contour either when back trolling or forward trolling. I have a da ducer stick on the 2025 but use it for DS/SS with a LSS-2 and 50-200 khz 455-800 kHz HDI, like the narrow cone angle with the 200 KHZ for pinpointing fish. But for trolling at 2 mph the stick moves with the LSS-2 so eliminates side scan effectiveness so I go with the 455 or 800 on the HDI ducer.

You will find as I have that using 2d will be less and less to find active schools. Time will help you gain confidence on what your seeing. 2D is history and panoptix is what to come.

Hope I did not confuse you. If so more then willing to speak on the phone to help.... simple answer the PS-30 and PS-31 works well for trolling. For some reason won't allow me to load photos. However search my threads you will see some of my photos....hey thanks for the heads up and hope it helps.

[fishfood]

Thanks guys ..... I will keep you informed when we start testing.

[Treeguyus]

Great info from everyone, thanks.
Treeguyus, I do almost exactly what you do, 2050 Crestliner, gas kicker, ipilot with speed difference on the Ulterra.
When you say PS31 pointed backwards, do you mean off the terrova or do you have a PS31 on the transom of the Crestliner?
With boards running 80-100 ft out and 40-80 ft off boards do you think you could see cranks? That would be really cool.

I ultimately would really like to find a way to mark fish at speed (20mph or so) with a wider beam / coverage but seems like the market is not there yet or at least not for shallow water.

Yes a PS-31 pointed backwards on transom. Would love to send you a picture but photos won't load sorry.

80-100 out to the side is too far unless you mount it "directional". Garmin wanted the PS-30 to pick up downrigger balls with baits on a short lead.

[Treeguyus]

I run the PS 31 and have it mounted on a stick near my tiller so that I can pan with it. I do some trolling for striper and chinook. I have not had as much luck tracking trolled baits as I was hoping for but maybe I need to play with it more. The one thing I have found that with it mounted as I have it near the tiller, when vertical jigging I can watch my bait and the way the fish respond to my presentation. In trolling for salmon and using large flasher/dodger, I am able to tell how deep it is running when it is behind the boat up to maybe 50 feet. From what Gary has reported about the PS 30 and trolling/back trolling, for my fishing style, I think that may have been a better choice for me.

The ps-30 offers a lot of features. One is coverage to allow picking up down rigger balls and lures on a short lead by adjusting fore and aft...