Navionics charting questions - need help with charting?

[DSantos222]

Wallyandre, I did hear back from Navionics Help today. They said the issue could be included in a scenario that has been "individualated" and should be fixed in the next App release. They asked that I move back the time of my iPad back 10 minutes.

[papical]

Which Navionics card do i need to get this detail. This is Old Birmingham on Kentucky Lake. I want to see the old road beds, the old bridges and building foundations. Im using Lowrance HDS 2 Touches. Is there a particular setting i need to use?

Amazing, Eric. I've been searching for any posts about Old Birmingham on here. I want to do the same thing with my sonar. Did you ever explore the site? I'd LOVE to see any and all screenshots you might have.

[wallyandre]

From smallmouth:When your using your Navionics card in your Lowrance HDS unit you have an option called Color of SeaBed, many people dont know what that means. If you have it turned on it will show you all the river and creek channels on your map. If you have it off they will be all gone. So check yours next time your at your boat to see what it yours is set on. Go to Chart then menu, chart option, setting, and color of seabed.
Got this from another website; not familiar with creek channel

[Wayne P.]

This is part of Kentucky Lake:

[basscfo]

When was the last time that navionics actually conducted additional/updated mapping surveys on Toledo Bend and Sam Rayburn Lakes? I am not asking about community mapping, but professionally done, detailed mapping? Are there any plans to conduct additional mapping surveys to regain your lead in maps on these lakes? I just spent 7 days on Rayburn prefishing and fishing a 2 day tournament and was in my partner's boat most of the time with Garmin maps of the lake, and those maps enabled us to work out a pattern that yielded 44lbs of fish including 2 over 7 and a high finish in the tournament. We could not see the same actual detailed features on my new navionics Platnum + , Fish n chips, map, when we used my rig in prefishing? Nor could I see the same detail when I pulled up the Navionics Boating map on my mobile device to compare to the Garmin maps. Seems to me that the current strategy to get your customers to update your maps for you, at their time and expense, is leaving holes like swiss cheeze in your lake maps because the actual base maps are old, and a lot of the data is interpolated to 1 ft contours, and are not based on actually mapped detailed raw data, and community updates from mulltple sources are not consistantly mapped and require a lot of blending and interpolation, to tie into existing old map data. Based on what I see when I zero in on details indicated by your maps and compare to actual measured depth on my Gen 3 's, creek channel details are not accurate and you sure cannot follow an actual creek channel in 10- 25 ft depths on these 2 lakes, based on Navionics maps, and accurately see the switchbacks and s curves of the creeks, or use the map to orient the boat and make your casts, like we could with the competitors map. I own Lowrance Gen-3's, and have a sack full of Navionics chips, because they used to give me a competitive edge. I am not going to even start on how far behind you are on live mapping, and what an advantage the live mapping features are for Bird and Garmin owners, but that is another competitive point that does not seem to be registering at Navico? Are you guys doing anything to give us that edge again? Need some help now! Get your eye on the ball. It is not about the sonar , or the 3-d or the structure scan, it is about the maps!

[prostaff1]

This is an amazing rant based on total misinformaiton...YOU HAVE THE WRONG CARD! Your words "Platinum+" NOT for the area your are referencing, and both Toledo Bend and Sam Rayburn are not listed on that card for the south Texas and Gulf areas.
Go to Navionics.com and check the available lakes for specific lakes on any of their cards.

FLASH! Navionics and Navico are two different companies...do you not know that? So why are you slamming Navico as not being on top of something that does not apply to them. AND, slamming Navionics based on you referencing the wrong card renders ALL of you comments uninformed and having no credibility whatsoever.

Consider that greater than 9 of 10 of ALL Professional Anglers, Bassmaster Elite, FLW and Walleye use and win with Navionics mapping used in Lowrance, HB, Simrad, Raymarine etc. They use the Navionics information and win...but you have a problem with it.....Hummm

If you find ANY inaccurate information on a Navionics card..pls forward that specific information with Lat/Lon and a description of the inaccuracy to Navionics and they will investigate and/or adjust if needed. There are NO. NADA mapcards in the world which are 100% accurate all the time. Navionics mapping is updated 2000 times per day so it is as current and updated as is available anywhere.

The bass fishing community is a team with everyone always wanting more and better information which helps us all.
You can be a complainer... or a contributor....your call.

Tommy
Prostaff Lowrance/Navico
Prostaff Marine Specialist/Navionics

[wallyandre]

X2!

[Wayne P.]

As far as Toledo Bend is concerned if you get the correct map card, Toledo Bend is being resurveyed now by Navionics and being surveyed by Lakemaster. It is not done in a couple of days. The Navionics TB data is constantly being updated, just check the Web App occasionally to see the progress.

Sam Rayburn is HD now with Navionics.

[basscfo]

Sorry guys, my mistake on the card name. It is the Hotmaps platnum South, updated after purchase in August and then replaced by Navionics becuase it would not function properly and show aerial overlay data. I updated the replacement chip the week before we went to Rayburn so it is the best you have got. The map comparisons are based on my experience. As far as the 2000 times per day updating, if you are talking about the community mapping contributions, they make little difference from what I see on these 2 key lakes, based on key areas that I check whenever I do an update or buy a new chip to see if the area has been updated to something close to the actual detail in the water. As far as differences in actual versus map depth and location, the instances of this on Tbend are too frequent to report. If you try and follow many of the creeks, first the data usually plays out well before you get to the backs of them and where it does exist, whether you rely on the shaded creek beds or the contours, you will usually find the creek but not where the map shows, sometimes off hundreds of feet. That is what I have been used to with the Navionics mapping. Last week on Rayburn, we were able to follow Buck creek like a car driving on a road and the detailed features were extremely accurate. I am not seeing that kind of accuracy on the navionics charts. We also caught a lot of our fish on a large underwater ridge that you can see on both the Navionics and Garmin maps but the very fine details of the fingers and drains of the ridge were much more distinctive on the Garmin Map. Don't shoot the messenger, I am just telling you what I am seeing. I am guessing that the methodoloy and technology differences used in the more recent mapping by garmin may well explain why these fine details seem to be showing better on their maps compared to what I am seeing on Navionics and this is why I asked the question " how long has it been since these lakes were surveyed becuase the Navionics base maps continue to have the same obvious gaps in actual mapped data and lack a lot of fine detail where there is data. I am glad they are surveying Toledo Bend again and hope they fill some of these gaps and I hope that the data will be more accurate than the old has been assuming they are using state of the art surveying equipment. It needs to be if Navionics wants to remain competitive because the Bird and Garmin both did extensive mapping on TBend last year and their data is available now on their maps. Lowrance may not be the same company as Navionics but you are tied together at the hip and both sides of the equation need to get some things going to regain your competitive position as it relates to mapping data and live mapping capabilites, at least as it relates to Rayburn and Toledo Bend.

[Wayne P.]

Sorry guys, my mistake on the card name. It is the Hotmaps platnum South, updated after purchase in August and then replaced by Navionics becuase it would not function properly and show aerial overlay data. I updated the replacement chip the week before we went to Rayburn so it is the best you have got. The map comparisons are based on my experience. As far as the 2000 times per day updating, if you are talking about the community mapping contributions, they make little difference from what I see on these 2 key lakes, based on key areas that I check whenever I do an update or buy a new chip to see if the area has been updated to something close to the actual detail in the water. As far as differences in actual versus map depth and location, the instances of this on Tbend are too frequent to report. If you try and follow many of the creeks, first the data usually plays out well before you get to the backs of them and where it does exist, whether you rely on the shaded creek beds or the contours, you will usually find the creek but not where the map shows, sometimes off hundreds of feet. That is what I have been used to with the Navionics mapping. Last week on Rayburn, we were able to follow Buck creek like a car driving on a road and the detailed features were extremely accurate. I am not seeing that kind of accuracy on the navionics charts. We also caught a lot of our fish on a large underwater ridge that you can see on both the Navionics and Garmin maps but the very fine details of the fingers and drains of the ridge were much more distinctive on the Garmin Map. Don't shoot the messenger, I am just telling you what I am seeing. I am guessing that the methodoloy and technology differences used in the more recent mapping by garmin may well explain why these fine details seem to be showing better on their maps compared to what I am seeing on Navionics and this is why I asked the question " how long has it been since these lakes were surveyed becuase the Navionics base maps continue to have the same obvious gaps in actual mapped data and lack a lot of fine detail where there is data. I am glad they are surveying Toledo Bend again and hope they fill some of these gaps and I hope that the data will be more accurate than the old has been assuming they are using state of the art surveying equipment. It needs to be if Navionics wants to remain competitive because the Bird and Garmin both did extensive mapping on TBend last year and their data is available now on their maps. Lowrance may not be the same company as Navionics but you are tied together at the hip and both sides of the equation need to get some things going to regain your competitive position as it relates to mapping data and live mapping capabilites, at least as it relates to Rayburn and Toledo Bend.

Navionics does about 2000 updates per day for their Nautical Charts "somewhere". They have worldwide coverage.

Then there is the user generated Sonar Charts maps and those are created as the data is processed and the number of uploads dictates. The last few sonar logs I uploaded took about 4 weeks to get processed--must have been very busy. Typically its just over a week turn-around.

Lakemaster's map for 2016 is not the whole lake--listed as partial HD. Lakemaster has annual editions that are released around March/April. But it looks like the single map edition Chart Select is available for the whole lake now.

[prostaff1]

This is the same "area" as post 1244, One example of at least 100 possibles depending on user customization needs.




Tommy
Prostaff Lowrance/Navico
Prostaff Marine Specialist/Navionics

[basscfo]

Wayne P. -Regarding the updated mapping on Toledo Bend, the lake is historically difficult to map because of all the standing timber/stumps that now become exposed whenever the lake drops more than 2 or 3 feet below full pool. That explains why so much of the lake remains unmapped on all companies chips. The lake is now 4 feet low and a majority of the stumps are now exposed en mass and you cannot make needed mapping passes through them with a boat of any size right now. The lake was historically high for most of 2015 and half of 2016. This was the window when the mapping should have been done to get the backs of creeks and major shallow structure that has historically not been mapped due to the inability to navigate through it or to prevent damage to the mapping sensors on the mapping boat. The other guys did their updating during this window and they still did not get everything, especially north of Pendleton Bridge. Navionics will have a lot of difficulty trying to map the lake now. Maybe they can do it but the northern half of the lake and most backs of creeks will be a challenge. I could not idle through one major structure yesterday with my bass boat without banging uncomfortably on numerous stumps. I hope navionics can and hope they get it done as soon as possible. I am skeptical though. There is one survey boat sitting on a trailer up here, that has not moved in a month since the lake got near its current levels. Not sure whose boat it is but it is just an indicator of the difficulties that exist right now to surveying. All I have are Lowrance and Navionics equipment and maps and I need them to be successful. If we do not have the updates by end of spring fishing it will not be soon enough. Pray for rain since you missed the earlier window.
The 1 to 4 week turnaround for custom mapping processing is also quite a contrast to an instantly created map on your own chartplotter, which is what you can now get with many of the Garmin or the Bird's units. Also, upload and downloading through the internet is not easily done around the lake due to the poor internet service and any process that requires this is not really good enough for many of this area's users. I believe that the live mapping features are the largest competitive issue for Lowrance and to a lesser extent for Navionics. ( If we had a true bank to bank updated map from Navionics of TBend or Rayburn, we would not need the live mapping) Since no such map exists, I want to be able to do my own live mapping with my Lowrance equipment, and I want to be able to do it now! Waiting for this capability is getting more and more difficult to endure while others are able to do it with brand x or brand y. I may not have much credibility with Tommy but after all, I am just a lowly bass fisherman and long time customer who until now has exclusively used navionics and Lowrance. My goal is simply to have a competitive product that allows me to catch more fish and not have to reinvest in another company' s equipment in the process. I know quite a few devotees that have already run out of patience and are actively mapping themselves with one of the other brands, and others like me that are waiting to see if we get a timely responce from Lowrance and or Navionics.

Wayne, I appreciate your responce above, and it just helps to reinforce my issues.
But what do I know? I am just another dumb customer that uses navionics and Lowrance stuff 3 or 4 days a week to catch fish.
If someone from Lowrance would like to comment on what their plans or strategy are to address the mapping issue, I am all ears.

And if I do not have credibility or count for anything, check the 2017 Bass Elite schedule and you will see that Tbend and Rayburn are there. Tbend was named best bass lake in the country by Bassmaster for 2015 and 2016. People come here from all over the country and want to use the best mapping chip available when they come. KVD won and Kieth Combs did very well last May here at TBend in the Elite tournament. They both caught most of their fish deep cranking and they needed good maps and electronics to do it. KVD very publically credited his win on his electronics and particularly his mapping. They were not Lowrance nor Navionics. If I were running a mapping company, I would be trying to have the best map of Toledo Bend on the market, If I did not have one of any other lake. Get it done.

[prostaff1]

I simply asked you to give some Lat/Lon with descriptions so I or others can take a look at your issues and shed some light or help with it. That is NOT too much to ask. I also asked you to contact Navionics with the same information. IF you spent 1/4 of the time working with positive actions to get help as you spend complaining, you might be surprised of how much help you would get.

Personally I can only determine anything credible if I can see the facts. Without that specific information of areas in question, NOTHING is credible and will remain worthless until we have something to see and a place to start working to address the issues. I have the mapping for it but nothing to see and no where to begin.... but willing to take a look with some guidance. I am 100% sure that Navionics would be equally supportive of help with your issues.
Tommy
Prostaff Lowrance/Navico
Prostaff Marine Specialist/Navionics

[basscfo]

Sorry I struck a nerve. I am just a customer and user of your Lowrance and Navionics products and want to remain so. I did work with Navionics to diagnose the problem with the first HotMaps Platnum chip that I purchased in August and they replaced it and I thank them for doing that. I did learn through Wayne that they are trying to remap Toledo Bend and I appreciate that info. Partial answer to one of my questions done and thanks.

But I still would really like to know if there are any plans by Lowrance to get a live "mapping in the box" product on the market anytime soon?

[JDFishing]

basscfo - I was just at Sam Rayburn last week for Navionics in fact. I too run Lowrance and Navionics products.

First off, a lot of your concerns between Navionics and Navico (Lowrance) is awesome feedback and valued by each company. Though both companies work great together, they are at the same time separate companies completely. Navionics may have a good working relationship with Lowrance, but they do as well with almost every other chartplotter company like Humminbird, Raymarine, etc. In fact in a lot of ways, some anglers would consider Navionics relationship at or better with Raymarine and Humminbird. It's all business and each company mentioned has gives and takes with each other to provide the general fishing and boating public with the best possible products, yet still to turn an individual profit. Your desire for live mapping as a Lowrance user should be requested through the chartplotter company itself as obviously Navionics strictly creates map cards for units, not the actual units themselves. If there is indeed enough demand out there for it as you've stated, my guess is that these companies will find a solution for their customers needs and come together to make it happen.

You seem to know an awful lot of how cartography works, far more than the "dumb customer" you mockingly refer to yourself as. I 100% agree with you that there are maps out there that Navionics competition has the upper hand on, at the same time, there's plenty of major lakes where Navionics is the best option. If not the ONLY option. Navionics has more maps than anyone. Garmin's map is just what you say, it's newer. The truth is they are getting into freshwater and are forced to go out and gain these new maps. They have a long way to go and by the time they've caught up to Navionics database, they'll be faced with the exact same reality's in that some of their maps will need to be re-surveyed and/or updated. Until then, if you happen to be spending the vast majority of time on Sam Rayburn and Toledo and are not happy with your current products and there's a better option out there for you, that's the beauty of competition, there's options and it drives the overall value of the products up.

I found my Navionics card to be spot on in a lot of areas and out dated in others while visiting Rayburn. I personally see community mapping mixed with re-surveying, the best possible way to get the most current and up to date maps. In fact, I see it as the only way. Navionics spent the money to survey, re-survey, lease and purchase cartography all over the world. They also spend a lot of their funds on a software that allows us to not only map our own maps in a traditional grid pattern lake we've all been accustomed to, but be able to map every square inch while we fish using SonarCharts. Garmin may indeed have just spent the money to do Rayburn, but obviously this won't be feasible for them to do this on any kind of a annual cycle. It will become out dated in due time. I encourage you to contact Navionics personally and request a re-survery of the lake. They consider every request they get when deciding which bodies of water to re-survey.

Again, you as a loyal Navionics and Lowrance user have every right to voice your frustrations, I too have frustrations with what my setup in certain areas or am envious to what a current competitive models can do. It's that way between Ford and Chevy, Ranger and Phoenix, Mercury and Yamaha, Garmin and Lowrance, Navionics and Lakemaster. I encourage you to also share some of this energy your giving to the forum and send these same concerns to the above companies so that you're insured the right people are aware so you can see the change. Or just go with the best product available for you and your budget and spend your hard earned time and energy out catching some bass! Tight lines man, you got one hell of an awesome fishery down there!!

Here's a screenshot from my time down there, and a nice one I pulled off this channel.

[wallyandre]

Thanks Josh for that very clear explanation!

[rfdong]

Question regarding the update for the mobile app vs platinum + card. Some of the local pros here in CA have been doing some mapping that's already on the mobile app per their posts, but it's been weeks and it's still not available on the card update, I understand it's a separate process, but normally how long does it take to make it to the card update? Thanks

[sfw1960]

Nice one???



I live in the Northern climes ...

That's a DONKEY Josh!

[Wayne P.]

Question regarding the update for the mobile app vs platinum + card. Some of the local pros here in CA have been doing some mapping that's already on the mobile app per their posts, but it's been weeks and it's still not available on the card update, I understand it's a separate process, but normally how long does it take to make it to the card update? Thanks

No uniform time to get the data on the download server. Days or weeks sometimes, depends on how much data has been processed for a certain amount of time.

[JDFishing]

I too uploaded a few logs that were just recently added but took a little longer than normal. My guess is you'll be seeing your results very soon! Tight lines!

sfw1960 - thanks man! It was a good one!