ficht 200 hp PROBLEM

[fishinbob]

Howdy Folks,
I’ve looked through a great deal of posts from this board and do not see anything that quite fits the problem I’m having and hoping someone can help me out. I’ve stop by from time to time just to look at all the great info.

I have a 2000 Evinrude FICHT 200 hp, model #E200FPXSSH, serial #G04858495. The motor is hard starting. It takes 10 plus tries before it fires when cold and 2 – 3 tries to start after warm up. Once it is running it surges between 530 – 700 rpms at idle. I’m assuming both problems are one in the same. She runs fine after shifting in gear and advancing the throttle, no surge or skip. It’s only during idle or when first shifted into gear before actual acceleration.

Both internal and external fuel/water filters were replaced. CPS replaced and adjusted to .040. The stator was replaced by the dealer last fall for the same problem and did not fix it. The TPS is also new. And the EMM was replaced in 2004 because it flat out died. Removed and cleaned all power cables from a new 1000 CCA battery to the motor. It does turn a bit faster but did not resolve the problem. This past weekend I went through the sync and timing calibrations with no success. I can adjust the surge ie: constant idle at 650rpm, out of it by misadjusting the throttle cable. However the motor tends to go into runaway once the throttle is advanced beyond idle while in gear. There is an old post on this board for 150 FICHT that discusses TPS voltage adjustment at idle and through the shift range. My Evinrude/Johnson service manual, P/N #787064 has a mechanical adjustment for the throttle cam but does not contain electrical specs for the tps. Are the 150’s different?

Once the motor is in gear and above 800 rpm’s she runs like a top right up to 5500 rpms.
Any thoughts and what should be checked? All comments and suggestions welcomed.

TIA - bob

[Danrude]

fishinbob, I am no expert on these ficht motors but I have a 2000 model 200 and am experiencing one of what sounds like two problems you are having. first the hard starting does it start when you advance the accelerator then dies when you release it, if so then what is the compression readings on each cylinder, they need to be within tolerance. The second symptom where the motor surges or searches in idle I have that problem occuring on my motor at this time except it stops doing it when it warms up, did yours do that when it first started. I thought at first it might be fuel related except that it stops when warm, if yours does not stop then you may want to look at things that could cause that such as the fuel lift pump or a injector. Hopefully Rusty63 or sportwin will give you some feedback shortly. let me know what you find and I will do likewise.

[fishinbob]

Danrude,
Thanks for the response.
Short of disconnecting the throttle cable at the motor and advancing the throttle there is no way to advance the accelerator and start the motor. Is this what you are referring to? The motor will not start unless it is in neutral. Once it starts it remains running and idles between 520 - 720 rpm’s. Sometimes it takes 10 -15 tries before it fires off and stay’s running. Once it is warmed up it always starts in 2 - 3 tries. Last fall the dealer did a compression check and said it was well within spec.

The motor surges while in the idle position and does not go away when warn. The surge runs between roughly 520 – 720 rpm’s and does go away once you put it in gear and give it a bit of gas so it’s running about 750 rpm’s, maybe a hair less. From that point on the motor runs as smooth as silk right up to 5500 rpm’s, no surge or skip. It runs perfect! If it is a fuel problem I would expect some type of performance issues at the higher rpm’s. Do you agree? The runaway condition mentioned is while it is connected to a hose. I have not put it in the water to see if the load on the prop cures the runaway condition. I did the cylinder drop test and it did not indicate a fault in one of the cylinders.

[Danrude]

fishingbob, with a hotfoot you can advance the accelerator and start an engine, sorry that was an assumption that you had one. not starting cold could be associated with the inputs the emmrecieves for the idle governor to work properly. It reads the air temperature the engine water temperature exhaust pressure, and I am sure im leaving something out. If you have the manual it is in there I don't have mine with me.
The searching when ideling I was going to attempt to do the cylinder drop test but I am not sure it will work if you try to perform it below 700 rpm's.
Yes! I agree that some fuel related issues would show up throughout the RPM range, except possibly an injector that may be worn, that is why I wanted to turn them off a cylinder at a time to try and see if the searching stopped.
Maybe the Guru's will add something I am missing in my thinking.
Dan

[fishinbob]

Danrude, Thanks for the suggestions. I'll rerun the drop test to be sure I did not overlook anything. I'll post if test results differ from the first time.

Looks like this has stumped the experts since there has been hardly any response to the post. Just my luck!

Thanks Again - bob

[Danrude]

Back to our problem of the engine searching or surging at idle, I am going to get back to troubleshooting this problem tomorrow and thought I would check and see if you had done anything further to isolate the problem.
I will post and let you know what I find.
Dan

[fishinbob]

Between work and rain it has been difficult spending any length of time on it but did look at it for a bit last night. I did the cylinder drop test again. There is not a significant change in surge when any one cylinder is dropped. Also re-verified TPS voltage is correct (.55v) when in natural, verified the fuel vapor vent hose does not have any fuel in it and re-checked fuel pressure. It runs at a solid 27psi and does not fluctuate as the motor surges. I had done the same tests a while back with the same results. My next step is review the theory section in the manual to get a better idea how the fuel delivery system works.

bob

[fishinbob]

This past weekend I performed the fuel troubleshooting procedure per the manual. Once again all fuel tests were within spec. If it's is a defective fuel component causing the low rpm surge then it's marginal at it's worse. I'm headed for vacation come the end of week and plan on running the motor as is and hoping whatever is causing the surge will fail completely and be more obvious.
Anyone else have any suggestions?
Danrude: Did you make any progress over the weekend?

[loulouton]

Did you check the electrical wiring of the main power? I had a bad connection between the B+ of the battery and the engine (not broken but weak) that caused hard starting and low idle (not really non constant idle like in your case).

As the ficht engines need to have good power from the battery even when running it could be your problem...

[Danrude]

I did do some troubleshooting this past weekend. The cylinder drop test did pick up one thing that I have to work with a little further. When I performed the test each cylinder turned back on with a sudden rise in RPM's except #6, when it came back on line the RPM's came up mouch slower. There may be a flow problem with that injector, however I am at a loss as to how to confirm that, short of getting it repaired or replaced. Maybee someone will jump in here and help with some checks to perform. If i come up with anything i will let you know.
Dan

[fishinbob]

loulouton: Motor is wired to the battery via a Perko selector switch. I removed and cleaned all positive and negative cables from the battery(s) to the switch and from the switch to starter. A voltage meter shows a drop of less than .05v when measured at the starter compaired to directly off the battery. The battery is new this year and is 1000CCA. Thanks

Dan: I think you may be on to something with the drop test findings. I do not believe it is possible to swap injectors. Hopefully someone can provide an alternate means for troubleshooting the injector. In my case the surging makes it difficult to get accurate results after power is restored to the injector. Next week I'll try the same test on the water while running at a constant 800rpm and see is any one cylinder recovers slower than the others. I'll keep you posted.

[Danrude]

Fishinbob, I just off the phone with DFI Technologies and they said that I could swap injectors if I was testing at idle speed. I am going to try it this weekend. I will let you know my findings.
Dan

[Danrude]

Fishinbob, I finally got back to working on the problem with the idle. I have solved the problem on my engine. The problem was that the starbord thermostat was stuck open not letting it come up to operating temperature. This caused a heavy carbon buildup in the three cylinders on that side. So check the temperature of the heads if one of them is too low replace the thermostat ( I replaced both). then decarb so all cylinders are clear of carbon and install new plugs.
I hope this helps.
Dan