My curious has got me again. If you placed a straightedge on your pad, extending past the end of pad, what would be measurement between bottom of pad and bottom of planer board? From pictures, doesn't appear to be that much, maybe an inch. With that small a difference, it would appear the boat always runs on that planer board, at any speed. If that is the case, why would you have the planer board? Why not just extend the pad towards the transom?
Good Question,
I think its more like 3 inches. and they claim if the boat is running flat as it should when up on pad, the plate is out of the water...
There is a link to patent office on another board. For Allisons skid plate that goes into a lot of detail about that..
It's hard for me to read (way to many big words and techno jargon)
It sounds to me that the main problem- with the faster hulls, is it almost has a suction effect that wants to hold the transom down. It works great on a Ranger. But not the ultra fast hulls. That is why the one Darris has on the new boats, is made like it is-- to actually force air in between the plate to keep this from happening. Yet help to pick the transom up on takeoff...
I am having some issues with mine when the boat is loaded real heavy------Have also talked to 2 more guys who are having the same issues, just not as bad.
It's my belief the plate is forcing water away from the prop when the bow is up (like taking off -or trying to keep the bow up in heavy seas) The props start cavitating real bad if you cant get the bow down.
Looking at trying prop with more stern lift first then go from there..
I asked Darris when he came out with the skid planer on the 21's why he didn't mold it into the hull, his answer was that a boat taking off in water is like you trying to pull your foot out of the mud, the vacum that is created will not let go. The reason it is a seperate plate is so there can be an air gap (vacum break) between the pad & planer, this breaks the suction aiding in a better hole shot. The planer does not touch the water when the boat is up and running.
fnf, sounds like you need a lower pitch prop when loaded heavy as you described, I have not seen or had any customers complain about the problem of prop blow out, if the bow is high enough to do that, somethings wrong for sure.
Lee
Lee,
I have ran 3 props so far.
28 RE4----29 RE3-----26 Hydromotive Q4
The 26 over hub was the worst, The big ear 29 was the best (go figure)
My fishn partner has 250xs with 25 trophy, same story just not as bad.
The last time I talked to Darris I had only ran the 28 RE4. When I told him what it was doing. Like you he had not seen this. The 28 had some small dings on the leading edge. So i thought it was just the prop.
But after playing with the other props and getting in some ((BAD)) wind. I think there is some merit to what I am saying. Then talking to others that run these boats at higher elevations and with what I call a true tournament load. They have seen it also.
I can run the boat with just me and my gear with any of the above props-no problem....load my partner and his gear ---it starts to show a little..then fill the livewell up..full tank of fuel---Its embarrassing..
I think we have all seen some chopper style props that would cavitate real bad.
Especially when you have to put the bow straight up in rough water just to keep from swamping the boat. We were coming in 1 day with that 26 4 blade thru hub with a 30+mph head wind----------the boat would not even get on plane----had to turn it around with the wind to get it up.
Now I carry a lot of wt compared to most Allison drivers. But nothing compared to what I did when I still ran the Gambler or Ranger..
I am not carrying any more wt in this boat than i did in the 2003.......................AND I am using the same motor and props that I ran on the 2003 before I put the 280SS on it.. That was one of the selling points for this boat that it would carry a load better...And it does once you get it up.
I do believe if you folks will go to a lake that is about 2000 ft altitude
get 3 batteries, charger, spare prop, tools, cooler with drinks, full tank of fuel,live well full of water, a full grown 80# trolling motor,2 fat firemen and enough gear to fish for a week. you will witness what we are talking about.
If I ever get this mtr back together I have a few things to try along with some more props. if that don't help the next thing I'm going to do is remove that plate. Just to see if it is pushing water away from the prop.
fnf, hard to tell looking at the pictures, but whether 1 or 3 inches, conditions are gonna have to be ideal for the planer to be out of the water at high speed. You would have to be running solely on the back of the pad, and to do that, gotta be pretty calm, have a lotta hosses, and you will have to throw one of them firemen outta the boat!!
By the way, what size engine are u running, and what kinda speeds do you run with different loads?
Another by the way, did you buy this boat from Key Puckett? He had a red and white XB21 at the boat show this year.
fnf, here is article on Mercury website you might find interesting.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/e...lers6
Rip.
I have a 225 pro max.
The only runs with just me in the boat were made with the 26, it would hit the limiter at about 80 with or with out my partner. I did hit 84 with the 29 and 2 on board and empty livewell.
With some motor mods and the right setup I hope to get closer to 90.
I did not buy this boat from the gentleman you asked about..
As far as I know he does not have any repeat business from this area.
fnf,
The over hub props you are running do not work on the 21 footer, the Hydromotive ot will work ok if you install a blow out ring on it other than you will still be on the limiter. I don't believe that the plate is causing the problem you are having, It is my opinion the prop is ventilating, sucking air from the surface. I suggest you try a 27 Trophy with 2 small & 2 medium vent plugs, one of Darris's Allison cut Trophys or one of our FnR props, you will see a big difference. We have not tested a 225 PM on the 21 but have ran a 225x and a 2.5xs (225) with great results, the 225x will run 87.6 gps with a 27 FnR and have a great hole shot. The 225xs will run 91 gps with 1.75 gears and a 27 FnR, hole shot is a little sluggish but still better than most bass boats. All testing performed as described below.
When we test boats we run full loads with all equipment, 82# motorguides, 2-delco 27-grp. & 1-24 grp. batteries, min. 1/2 tank of fuel, livewells empty & full, 2- 200# + guys, the only thing missing is very rough water.
Lee
Thanks lee,
I hope your right there is no doubt the props are venting.
I just got hold of a 26 trophy.. But I think what I need is a 25 for the 4200 ft elevation lake and a 27 for down south.
I have not given up on the over-hubs YET.
While this mtr was down I removed the baffle and relieved the exhaust..I have seen times when that would help by not forcing all the exhaust by the prop. But just in case ...I can plug the holes,, sometimes the exhaust relief hurts the hole shot on a thru hub prop.. We also got some spacers to move the prop as far back on the prop shaft as possible. And per Darris advice got a 1" spacer for the J-plate.
It's like running uncharted waters with a new rig.. But with a little help and an open mind I bet we get this baby doing just fine....
Have you got to do a comparison between a 27 Allison cut Trophy and your 27 FNR?
Lee,
something else i thought about is putting The Allison hydrofoil on
I bet that would give it enough extra lift to lay down and go on.
I had one and sold it, because it kept the nose to low on my old 2003 when you got in rough water.
But this 21 seems to run higher in the bow + the extra length and depth. It might be just the ticket..
fnf,
We have not ran a test between these 2 props. Darris will have one of our props after the 1st of the year to play with.
I have used the A-foil on the 21, it works great & will help with the over hub props, if they still want to ventilate too much, there are some mods. that can be performed on them to drastically improve the hole shot.
Lee
FnF, what I've found with all the prop testing I've down on my setups is that a trophy is one hell of a fishing prop to beat once it's tuned right. By tuned right, I mean worked by the right person for your setup. Here's an example, two 25 stock trophys, with all the plugs in, it would ventilate heavy on breakover. Same thing with a 26 stock trophy. These same props, tuned by Rich Boger, and I ran them with all the plugs out. It would rev to 4000-4500 and just go. When I was real heavy, it would vent very little but you didn't have to let off the gas cause it was still biting. JMO, I don't run any prop in stock form. Now, I'm not saying Rich in the only guy to go to but I'm speaking from experience on the results I've seen from his work. I think his prices have gone up since I last needed prop work.
Chad St. Pierre
Paulina LA 70763
Robbie can perform the same or better mods. for a lot less money.
Lee
Lee, my point was mainly that a prop needs to be tuned for your exact setup in order for it to perform well, not that Rich is better than the rest.
Chad St. Pierre
Paulina LA 70763
Chad,
Point is well taken.
I have owned no less than 1/2 dozen trophy props. but never had one worked by boger.
most any prop man worth his salt can make a prop much better than stock with the right info and knowing what you want..
but it also works with over hub props. i have had john mazer and dave bostic work on several props that were fantastic...
until now all i needed was a 26 re4 for above 3200 ft and a 28 re4 for lower elevations.... Before that i was using a 25 -26 Trophy and some choppers along with some re3's ---there are 10 Allisons that fish the same lakes i do and there is only one guy who still uses the trophy props..
they work fine until you get the higher elevations and a hot day. then they just have a hard time getting out of the hole- with a T load because they bite so hard.
that is where the over hub props will do a better job because of there design they let the mtr spool up and not bog.
when it is real noticeable is at the boat ramp...if you don't get the trailer just right and have to use the mtr to push the boat up... it will just bog the mtr.. but a good over hub will push the pickup and trailer if you need it to
I let some guys talk me into getting todd at hydrmotive to build me a 4 blade thru hub that was just a killer prop at sea level or below 1000 ft. for my old 2003-- well i don't fish any lakes below 1200 ft...... so i told todd the things i needed the prop to do and also i did not want a prop that was like a trophy when it came to bogging the mtr, at the ramp, or with a big load... I only had that prop for a short time before sell ing it with the 2003.........liked everything about it EXCept the bog...
I know what you mean about the RE4s, they are great fishing props and don't run to shabby on the top either. Probably the best all around prop.
Chad St. Pierre
Paulina LA 70763
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