115 / 140 conversion

[4cznskier]

I own a 1977 'rude 115 and was wondering what it take to convert it to a 140 ? The manual I have says they are the same bore, stroke and displacement???? what is the dif? Want MORE POWER!!!!!!

THANKS DAVE.

[Neveredge]

The 140 has a different block and has a tuned exhaust bubble. Not to mention tighter heads and different porting.

In short it would be cheaper to buy a new 115 (which is stronger than a 70s 140 anyway) than to undertake the hop up of an old 115.

I have the high compression heads that will fit your motor but I don't think you want them. They require an AV-Gas mix or race fuel to use. They are stock but they make 165PSI. Even high test pump gas isn't enough to keep your motor from popping with these.

[Tom G.]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4cznskier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I own a 1977 'rude 115 and was wondering what it take to convert it to a 140 ? The manual I have says they are the same bore, stroke and displacement???? what is the dif? Want MORE POWER!!!!!!

THANKS DAVE.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Save the cash and buy an ETEC!!

I wouldn't sink a lot of cash in a 30 year old motor... it would be cheaper in the long run to repower with a 115 ETEC...

[fishlipz]

I did a search to find something on this topic and came up with this thread. This is the only thread about this I could find. If any one knows of another please let me know.

I was just in the Keys with my 1998 EV 115 SPL OB motor and had a great time down there.

This motor is wonderful, reliable and strong. I bought the boat, motor and trailer last fall used off a private roadside seller. The owner was a poor fellow who loved to fish and had a heart attack, fell off the boat and his son in Iraq sold the boat through a friend who knew nothing about the boat & set up. But when you get 4 people in the boat it is slow. I scuba dive too so weight effects the performance at this displacement and horsepower just a bit too much.

Anyway, I met a mechanic in the Keys that has been doing engine failure analysis and repairs down there for 30 years. He worked on my boat. I had broke a shifter cable so we replaced them. He was a great guy and unfortunately I don't live down there to do this work with him. He is available by phone but I need to find the carbs first and then I can do the mechanical provided the right carbs are obtained ...but:

Here is what he said: " if you get a set of 140 carbs for your 115 engine they will bolt right on, linkages and all but you must get either 1982-84 140HP crossflow carbs. Since you currently have a 1998 bubble back 115HP, they will bolt right on with no other modifications. I've done this conversion several times and know others who have successfully done this as well."

The issue is that I went to buy the brand new carbs for those years, they are available but the factory tech backed away due to gov regs and wouldn't/couldn't help me. He did not deny that it could be done but directed me here to this particular forum to get some help. Also, he may not have been aware of the unique years and matching that can work in my situation.

Sure I would love an ETec 175 (the max HP the boat will handle), maybe one day I will get one, but I cannot afford that for a few years.

I would really like to engage upon a technical conversation, a second educated opinion about this conversion, hopefully avoiding all the philosophers, to learn what carbs to buy or if anyone has a legitimate second opinion having tried and failed or succeeded in doing this conversion.

Also, due to the age of this thread, I thought it would be interesting to know the actual outcome the origianl poster had here with his efforts.

Thanx for any info and help. I'll pay for help if anyone has experience on this.


Modified by fishlipz at 7:42 PM 3/20/2008

[pappastratos]

I read where that on the non FICHT E-rude 200's, the only difference between a 200HP & 225HP are the carbs,,

[ChampioNman]

As we don't do hop ups here try these guys http://www.screamandfly.com they can help you. Your Factory tech is correct the EPA will not allow mods to be made to motors by dealers. Not saying mods have never been done but generally not by dealers.

[ta3834bbl]

Very interesting thread, even if it is a bit old.

I just happen to have a '70 85hp johnson, '92 90hp rude, '78 115hp rude, and just picked up a '77 140 johnson. I want to know if I can swap the 140 powerhead (it's a new powerhead with about 20 hours on it) onto the '92 90hp unit so I can use VRO, the newer blue paint, trim and tilt on the cowl, the newer gearcase, and the wiring from the '92, etc.
The 85hp johnson


The 90 and 115 hp rudes


Just for info, the 115 was recently rebuilt and bored with new pistons/brgs etc and have been using it for a while so there isn't anything wrong with it. I will keep it for a backup engine.

The '70 85 johnson powerhead needs work.

The '92 90hp looks like it is in good shape but I would love to put the 140 p/head on it.

Since this is what the original poster was questioning, I thought I would revive it again. Todd


Modified by ta3834bbl at 8:55 PM 3/22/2008


Modified by ta3834bbl at 8:56 PM 3/22/2008

[ta3834bbl]

To clarify my intentions and learn a little, can I put the '77 140 140TL77S powerhead on the '92 90hp E90TLEND mid? Any gear ratio differences?

3rd question, what is the differences in a '77 140hp and a '78 115hp?

Crap, I just hijacked this post.

[fishlipz]

You didn't hijack a post that was several months old, and has already died.
And then died again.

You will likely find your effort die the same way because of either of these reasons:

1) Basic ignorance or even disinterest, no one has the actual expertise to address these moderately sophisticated motor issues.

2) if someone does have the knowledge and expertise, they may have long been conditioned and feel uncomfortable helping us out, for an annihilators posing as a moderators may intervene to label these posts as attempts to "hop-up" and tell you that "we don't do this here". Then direct us to a website (which I did appreciate!!) where what were are doing is not sexy enough to get anyone's attention either. But then, perhaps there is some sponsor here that doesn't like this kind fo thing...you know, feels threatened.

BTW, the guys at "scream & fly" had some pointers that were way over my head...but those guys are used to hopping things really up. I guess this project I had in mind was likely not worth their effort but maybe for laughs, just not sexy enough. So we're somewhere in never-land between extremes: on one side the stodgy "don't do" old farts polishing their walkers in here and the other, grease geeks of nitro on titanium props in the "scream and fly" forum. .

3) the balless drone mentality induced by the priests of tradition and the arrogance of elitism.

Pick a venue for any human involvement, bicycling, golf, R/C airplanes any hobby and you will find the snotty-nosed set trying to maintain all those around them to be only like them.

Just like me, it doesn't appear to me that you are trying modify (hop - up)your humble motors to go to a rooster tail drag competition where the shoreline trees bend away from the massive HP of the competitor's shock waves.

[Bassmeister]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fishlipz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You didn't hijack a post that was several months old, and has already died.
And then died again.

You will likely find your effort die the same way because of either of these reasons:

1) Basic ignorance or even disinterest, no one has the actual expertise to address these moderately sophisticated motor issues.

2) if someone does have the knowledge and expertise, they may have long been conditioned and feel uncomfortable helping us out, for an annihilators posing as a moderators may intervene to label these posts as attempts to "hop-up" and tell you that "we don't do this here". Then direct us to a website (which I did appreciate!!) where what were are doing is not sexy enough to get anyone's attention either. But then, perhaps there is some sponsor here that doesn't like this kind fo thing...you know, feels threatened.

BTW, the guys at "scream & fly" had some pointers that were way over my head...but those guys are used to hopping things really up. I guess this project I had in mind was likely not worth their effort but maybe for laughs, just not sexy enough. So we're somewhere in never-land between extremes: on one side the stodgy "don't do" old farts polishing their walkers in here and the other, grease geeks of nitro on titanium props in the "scream and fly" forum. .

3) the balless drone mentality induced by the priests of tradition and the arrogance of elitism.

Pick a venue for any human involvement, bicycling, golf, R/C airplanes any hobby and you will find the snotty-nosed set trying to maintain all those around them to be only like them.

Just like me, it doesn't appear to me that you are trying modify (hop - up)your humble motors to go to a rooster tail drag competition where the shoreline trees bend away from the massive HP of the competitor's shock waves.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude, these guys are helping people to keep their engines running and RELIABLE!! Which is what 99 and 44/100ths want. I hope you can understand that they are the mods and do dictate somewhat goes on here but the masses have indicated they want reliability. You said yourself they gave you somewhere else to go, by your comments I'm gathering no site makes you happy. Do your own search for hop ups and start yer own site, but don't try to change ours!!

[ta3834bbl]

While I can understand the reasons behind not modifying the engines (don't agree), I am wanting to swap a 140 complete powerhead onto the 90 chassis to get more modern covers and trim and tilt in the cowl, and a nicer paint scheme without the painting.

If the site moderators don't want 'mods' then so be it, it is still an awesome site. I have and will continue to learn from here!

On the other hand, hasn't anyone ever put headers on their first car, or changed a 2bbl carb to a 4bbl from the same model? Seems to me the later was legal if it was newer and offered on the model line. Just a thought.

And I still want to know the difference between the 115 and 140 hp ratings of '77-78.

[fishlipz]

Mr Bassmeister,

My happiness in a site is not dependant upon my conformity wearing just the right club jacket, to be safely inside some 99 percentile of drones, but obtaining answers or information, if it exists, from others willing to help. Happiness is a satisfaction in interacting with coherent people who might have the knowledge, the will, the stability, the maturity and downright courtesy to help someone. I do this all the time in other areas for other folk in my business.

I guess I should not have assumed that others could naturally be the same way. Perhaps it is only protein deficiency in the formative years. Most of the time you can’t tell this by looking until they speak or they have a severe overbite. That is the only good excuse I can think of. Anyone can quench but who can be innovative and open to assisting and helping someone in a puny little project like mine?

I'm sure the other forums and topics here are rich with the wonderful bass predatory experience. Seeing that, I thought it would only be logical to assume that many in here might be learned in motors as well, since the pursuit of bass is all done with motors and boats mostly. To be slapped down for asking is bizarre and even tribal, it is also quite far from the southern IQ of courtesy and hospitality.

I have a humble little boat with a 115hp, not some massive phallic HP bass boat. I'm wondering who really is the “hop-up” horse power junky anyway. I'm not about changing your forum at all. What an odd and defensive thing to say to someone. This is a post in a motor thread with the same dam name of the motor I have for that matter. Not a post in a lure, reel, trailer or tarpaulin thread. If there is someone that has experience with my situation, what the hell is it to you if they help me in here? Are we interacting with some sacred priestly bass cult order where we must all chant the same mantra? This is not a good thing.

Are you that immature and defensive not to let people communicate? You know, consenting adults? LOL What is the problem with this need for obsessive conformity and compulsive censorship? What is the threat? Reliability you say? Sounds just like liberalism to me, trying to make me come under the power of big manufacturer's spec just in lieu of big government. Even that is a misconception, no “hop-ups”, for the actual factory spec is what I’m really after. If that is achieved, then reliability is automatically maintained. Geeeze. That is the point of my post. Was that just too much over your head?

Now, if you took a look and examined what I was saying in my original request for help on this issue above, you'd likely realize that I was not trying to do anything other than a create an original, completely stock set up! There is nothing "hopped-up" about what I would like to do! Going from a stock 115 to a stock 140...a whopping 25 HP by reason of stock carbs? 25 hp?? Good gawd man...get a grip already. If no one knows how to do this then fine. I can accept that. It is out of the ordinary. But to get barked down and labeled some kind of a “hop-up” squirrel is uncalled for and shows a severe deficit of perception.

[ChampioNman]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fishlipz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mr Bassmeister,

My happiness in a site is not dependant upon my conformity wearing just the right club jacket, to be safely inside some 99 percentile of drones, but obtaining answers or information, if it exists, from others willing to help. Happiness is a satisfaction in interacting with coherent people who might have the knowledge, the will, the stability, the maturity and downright courtesy to help someone. I do this all the time in other areas for other folk in my business.

I guess I should not have assumed that others could naturally be the same way. Perhaps it is only protein deficiency in the formative years. Most of the time you can’t tell this by looking until they speak or they have a severe overbite. That is the only good excuse I can think of. Anyone can quench but who can be innovative and open to assisting and helping someone in a puny little project like mine?

I'm sure the other forums and topics here are rich with the wonderful bass predatory experience. Seeing that, I thought it would only be logical to assume that many in here might be learned in motors as well, since the pursuit of bass is all done with motors and boats mostly. To be slapped down for asking is bizarre and even tribal, it is also quite far from the southern IQ of courtesy and hospitality.

I have a humble little boat with a 115hp, not some massive phallic HP bass boat. I'm wondering who really is the “hop-up” horse power junky anyway. I'm not about changing your forum at all. What an odd and defensive thing to say to someone. This is a post in a motor thread with the same dam name of the motor I have for that matter. Not a post in a lure, reel, trailer or tarpaulin thread. If there is someone that has experience with my situation, what the hell is it to you if they help me in here? Are we interacting with some sacred priestly bass cult order where we must all chant the same mantra? This is not a good thing.

Are you that immature and defensive not to let people communicate? You know, consenting adults? LOL What is the problem with this need for obsessive conformity and compulsive censorship? What is the threat? Reliability you say? Sounds just like liberalism to me, trying to make me come under the power of big manufacturer's spec just in lieu of big government. Even that is a misconception, no “hop-ups”, for the actual factory spec is what I’m really after. If that is achieved, then reliability is automatically maintained. Geeeze. That is the point of my post. Was that just too much over your head?

Now, if you took a look and examined what I was saying in my original request for help on this issue above, you'd likely realize that I was not trying to do anything other than a create an original, completely stock set up! There is nothing "hopped-up" about what I would like to do! Going from a stock 115 to a stock 140...a whopping 25 HP by reason of stock carbs? 25 hp?? Good gawd man...get a grip already. If no one knows how to do this then fine. I can accept that. It is out of the ordinary. But to get barked down and labeled some kind of a “hop-up” squirrel is uncalled for and shows a severe deficit of perception.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Keep this up and you won't be posting here for long. You are walking on thin ice here bud. BTW ALL of the moderators are factory trained via OMC/BRP.

[Al from Canada]

Fred......his ice just melted. This clown has left the building. Just another example of someone hiding behind their keyboard and not even putting his name in his profile.

Fishlipz.....go find another website to spout your crap on.

[Bassmeister]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Al from Canada &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fred......his ice just melted. This clown has left the building. Just another example of someone hiding behind their keyboard and not even putting his name in his profile.

Fishlipz.....go find another website to spout your crap on. </TD></TR></TABLE>
T'was an eloquent post that I would have liked to responded to. However it's prolly best that it's gone!! Thanks Al!!

[Bassmeister]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ta3834bbl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To clarify my intentions and learn a little, can I put the '77 140 140TL77S powerhead on the '92 90hp E90TLEND mid? Any gear ratio differences?

3rd question, what is the differences in a '77 140hp and a '78 115hp?

Crap, I just hijacked this post.</TD></TR></TABLE>
After the other fellows assinine remarks, please feel free to make another post regarding your questions. The guys here will try to help ya on this one.

[Al from Canada]

Yeah Michael......certainly was an eloquent post......I probably should have let you respond to it; would have been quite the response I'm sure.

[GhostComanche]

Good that he is gone.................must be something in the water at his house....................makes him think that he was an Einstein wannabe........... ......... ...................Roger

[Bassmeister]

Mabye not so eloquent but I woulda tried to make the point.