Patoka is being ruined with Walleye

[CGWright]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Lucky1 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">You go up north (Michigan) and you get the same responses from the locals......

THE SMALLMOUTH ARE SCREWING UP THE WALLEYE FISHERY.....

</td></tr></table>

I've never heard anybody say that. In fact, most walleye guys I know get a good thrill when they hook a smallie, especially one of those pigs over 4 lbs.

As far as stocking walleye, I think it's great. I always look forward to an incidental dinner catch!

[TR21Bassin]

Personally I don't think DNR stocking walleye will screw up Indiana's fisheries anymore than they already are.

Its hard to make things worse than their current state.

Charlie

[Crappieman]

Bring the grass back......The lake is and was much better when the grass was plentifull.....Ask the DNR why they eliminated most of the grass......Keep the lake a couple of feet lower than summer pool all year(if possible) and let the grass come back...

[TR21Bassin]

I've yet to find any Indiana Fishery that was worth wasting time at on a usual basis.

I can spend 1.5 hours on the road and be at the twins. I'll take that option or drive over to IL and fish some good lakes.

Charlie

[skeeterator]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Crappieman &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Bring the grass back......The lake is and was much better when the grass was plentifull.....Ask the DNR why they eliminated most of the grass......Keep the lake a couple of feet lower than summer pool all year(if possible) and let the grass come back... </td></tr></table>

Actually there is plenty of grass in patoka now and its full of fish.

[skeeterator]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by TR21Bassin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I've yet to find any Indiana Fishery that was worth wasting time at on a usual basis.

I can spend 1.5 hours on the road and be at the twins. I'll take that option or drive over to IL and fish some good lakes.

Charlie</td></tr></table>

Illinois is known for its incredible bass fishing isn't it?!

And the only guys complaining that indiana fisheries aren't worth wasting time on are the ones that aren't good enough fishermen to put fish in the livewell.Doesn't take a whole lotta skill to head to the twins and wear em out,toss a dog turd into the flooded brush and you can catch 100 14/15 inch fish a day.

[cubswin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by bassfish 24-7 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote"> Bill Embry says he sees Walleye teeth marks on bass at weigh ins all the time.

What you guys think?</td></tr></table>

That would be one huge walleye. I've cleaned maybe 300 walleyes from the waters in this state, and have never found a bass in one. Some small crappie now and then, but mostly shad.

I'd like to see a walleye big enough to eat a bass that is being weighed in. Erie has a huge population of walleye, and don't see it hurting the smallmouth any. If it turns out like every other res in the state, the walleyes will flush through the system anyway and end up in the river.

[catch5]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by skeeterator &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Actually there is plenty of grass in patoka now and its full of fish.</td></tr></table>

IDK where your fishing at, but I fish up there 3 times a week and this is by far the worst year i've ever seen for the grass and Ive been from one end to the other. I get calls from people everyday wanting to know whats going on with the grass and if i can find much. Other than 4 or 5 spots on the main lake Ive yet to find any. Then you got 20 boats piled up on top of each other fishing those few spots.

I really hope the grass comes back. Im worried that if it keeps dieing off like this when the water comes up ech year that it will eventually just stop growing. I remeber the days when you could see floating mats of grass everywhere that were thick enough to skim a frog across. Good luck finding one patch like that now..

for the return of the grass. Its the key to a great fishery!!

[catch5]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by cubswin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

That would be one huge walleye. I've cleaned maybe 300 walleyes from the waters in this state, and have never found a bass in one. Some small crappie now and then, but mostly shad.

I'd like to see a walleye big enough to eat a bass that is being weighed in. Erie has a huge population of walleye, and don't see it hurting the smallmouth any. If it turns out like every other res in the state, the walleyes will flush through the system anyway and end up in the river. </td></tr></table>

Its not that the walleye are eating the bass its that they will in time root out the prime structure from the bass, thus in turn affecting the long term population of the bass. You really cant compare Erie to Patoka... Thats apples to oranges. Patoka is 8,000 acres not 8,000 square miles. Little more structure for the fish to disperse on on Erie..

[cubswin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by catch5 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Its not that the walleye are eating the bass its that they will in time root out the prime structure from the bass, thus in turn affecting the long term population of the bass. You really cant compare Erie to Patoka... Thats apples to oranges. Patoka is 8,000 acres not 8,000 square miles. Little more structure for the fish to disperse on on Erie..</td></tr></table>

True, and Patoka won't ever had anywhere close to the numbers. As I said, in most of the res in indiana the walleyes flush through the system fairly quickly and end up in the river. My point is that walleye aren't going to hurt bass fishing.

The shad will do more damage than the walleye to the fishery. Bluegill/Crappie/Little Bass all compete with shad when they are little. Yet us fishermen think shad are cure alls and often transplant them into lakes because we all think we are freaking biologists and know what is best for our favorite fish. Damn the rest.

[catch5]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by cubswin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

The shad will do more damage than the walleye to the fishery. Bluegill/Crappie/Little Bass all compete with shad when they are little. Yet us fishermen think shad are cure alls and often transplant them into lakes because we all think we are freaking biologists and know what is best for our favorite fish. Damn the rest. </td></tr></table>

The shad have hurt some and helped a bunch. Just depends on what type of fishing your doing. For the bass fishing its done wonders!!!! Before the shad i was happy to catch a couple skinny 15" inchers in a day. Now if I dont catch a limit of 3 pounders I consider it a bad day. Sure you dont go up there and catch 50 10 inchers a day like you use to, but the quality the last 6 or 7 years is great!! If the grass would grow the fishery will continue to be great.

Now the shad has definelty ruined the bluegill population up there for sure, but I guess thats a tradeoff im willing to make for the drastically improved bass fishing. Seems like the white bass fishing is also thriving, and while I don't do much crappie fishing it seems to be good. The lake is also phenomal for catfish

So overall I think the shad was a great addition to the lake. Seems like every fish, but the bluegill has benefited..

The DNR IMHO needs to stop worrying about getting rid of the shad and worry more about improving the habitat and gettign the grass back. The shad are here to stay. There is no way to get rid of them sort of draining the lake which obviuosly nobody wants. They should concentrate on things they can actually control..

[uk2thdoc]

The grass definitely seems to be down this year. I'm not sure if its by design of the DNR/Corps or what. It seemed like it was taking hold pretty well when the water was low then the lake level jumped up and the grass just didn't take off. Maybe the rise in water was to fast or it was to dingy for light to penetrate. We had some pretty big storms this spring that filled the lake up pretty fast and it really has stayed a little more stained than usual and I don't think either helped the grass. Either way, you are right that the grass is weak this year and it definitely seems like its been a while since you could find a good mat to thow a frog across.

Doc

[luv2fishindy]

If you think shad are a benefit to the fishery, I feel for ya. What is even worse is the fact that some of ya think the walleye are going to hurt the bass fishing. After reading through this thread I am a little embarrassed to call myself a bass fisherman. I hope no biologist read this thread or it will just reinforce their idea of fishermen as bait dunking rednecks.


Ray Rigby

[Mike Daleo]

I can't wait to bring some walleye home in a cooler. There is plenty of water out there though which is why #1 I think the bass will be fine and #2 why I may have a hard time catching those walleye.

[TR21Bassin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by skeeterator &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Illinois is known for its incredible bass fishing isn't it?!

And the only guys complaining that indiana fisheries aren't worth wasting time on are the ones that aren't good enough fishermen to put fish in the livewell.Doesn't take a whole lotta skill to head to the twins and wear em out,toss a dog turd into the flooded brush and you can catch 100 14/15 inch fish a day. </td></tr></table>

Yeah, Illinois has some great fisheries, Bora, East Fork, Rend Lake, Golconda, Lake of Egypt, Newton and several others.

Catching fish at Patoka or other Indiana lakes are not a problem, the fact is you fish all day for 5 quality bites. That is horrible in my opinion. Me and my partner have had several limits over 15 lbs and a few over 20 on Patoka, but in my mind it sucks.

As for the twins I can go down there and cull through more/better keepers than you will catch in Indiana. I don't think you can catch them in the bushes this time of year but as you say in the spring you can wear them out on anything. In my mind its pretty good if you can catch 100 fish a day on any fishery, unlike the ones around here.

Also the fact that DNR and Indiana could care less about the fisheries. The license, registration, ramp fees and additional boat tags, where does the money go? KY Lakes don't have ramp fees or additional boat fees yet they take care of their fisheries and I see the CO's stopping pleasure boaters which I've never seen in IN.

Charlie

[kisskollector]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by catch5 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

IDK where your fishing at, but I fish up there 3 times a week and this is by far the worst year i've ever seen for the grass and Ive been from one end to the other. I get calls from people everyday wanting to know whats going on with the grass and if i can find much. Other than 4 or 5 spots on the main lake Ive yet to find any. Then you got 20 boats piled up on top of each other fishing those few spots.

I really hope the grass comes back. Im worried that if it keeps dieing off like this when the water comes up ech year that it will eventually just stop growing. I remeber the days when you could see floating mats of grass everywhere that were thick enough to skim a frog across. Good luck finding one patch like that now..

for the return of the grass. Its the key to a great fishery!!</td></tr></table>

I have noticed the grass gone too, I've looked everywhere I have fished and can't find it anywhere. How on earth did the DNR get rid of grass? Chemicals? Machinery?

It's definitely hurt my fishing. I love top water, and haven't landed a topwater keeper all year.

[catch5]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by luv2fishindy &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">If you think shad are a benefit to the fishery, I feel for ya. What is even worse is the fact that some of ya think the walleye are going to hurt the bass fishing. After reading through this thread I am a little embarrassed to call myself a bass fisherman. I hope no biologist read this thread or it will just reinforce their idea of fishermen as bait dunking rednecks.


Ray Rigby</td></tr></table>

Do you really think the top lakes in the country dont have shad??? Kentucky Lake Guntersville, all the TVA lakes have shad. Matter of fact Ive fished all across the country and all the big name great bass factories are loaded with shad.

Do you really think the bass fishing was better at Patoka before the shad?? If so you need to pull up the winning tournament weights before they were in there. There were always big bags caught , but no where near the numbers of good quality 3 to 5 lbers.

[Mike Daleo]

I would think the stripers would be bad for the lake but what do I know.

[cubswin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by catch5 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Do you really think the top lakes in the country dont have shad??? Kentucky Lake Guntersville, all the TVA lakes have shad. Matter of fact Ive fished all across the country and all the big name great bass factories are loaded with shad.

Do you really think the bass fishing was better at Patoka before the shad?? If so you need to pull up the winning tournament weights before they were in there. There were always big bags caught , but no where near the numbers of good quality 3 to 5 lbers. </td></tr></table>

don't know about the bass fishing, but the overall fishing was better. Part of that of course was the lake was new, so its hard to judge. My main point was that walleye eat shad, lake has a self sustaining, over abundant amount of shad, so how is it going to hurt bass fishing? No one has answered that yet with a answer that makes sense.

Do I think the indiana dnr does a great job? Nope, but I'm not going to bitch when they are stocking fish that are going to have almost zero impact on my favorite fish, and may actually help reduce over abundant shad.

[luv2fishindy]

Threadfin shad and gizzard shad are two different species and impact the fishery differently. Threadfin are small and don't get but a few inches long. Gizzard shad get as much as 12-17 inches long. They eat the plankton that the young of the year feed on (Bass-Fry) They deprive bluegill, crappie and other panfish as well of food.

When the shad reach a certain size they have few predators. Not because they become the predator, because they become to large to eat. Yet they still continue to eat food necessary for the panfish and bass fry to survive. The largemouth get large quick and a good fishery is born for a short period of time. With no recruitment they start to fall off. I.E. Glenn Flint, West Boggs. Both peaked after the introduction of shad, now they are showing signs of decline and it will continue at a much more rapid pace.

Just an FYI? The slot limit brought Patoka back from the brink of death, not the introduction of shad. I could go on for pages, but you wouldn't listen. I'm just glad you're nowhere near my favorite fishery with your attitude.

I'm not a trouble maker nor am I a confrontational look for an argument kind of guy, but you're not going to win this argument. Just do a little research on the matter and open your mind a bit and ya just might learn a little something. You'll find the introduction of walleye and other sport fish will indeed improve the fishery.

Threadfin Shad=Good for the fishery
Gizzard Shad=Bad for the fishery (Patoka-Boggs-Coon etc.etc.)