Colors, Metal-Flake, Stripes

[A Fn Noob]

I have questions. This is is FishMoore's boat, I hope he doesnt mind me using it as an example, but I like the color scheme.

Please look at this thread for reference, it wont let me link the picture.

http://www.bbcboards.net...66698

1) Are these blue flakes against a blue backround color? I tried some blue flakes on a black background on a console, and it wasnt what I wanted, way too dark. I am sanding it back down, all the way. It came out too dark. (And I fouled up the last coat because, well, long story. Talked to Rollo about that though)

2) Is the silver pin stripe in the picture done a) on top of the blue, or did they b) mask off the silver and then do a blue stripe? Seems like it;d have to be b) , but Im asking because I dont know for sure.

3) I forget what I was going to ask. Im so tired of sanding, Its not even funny!

Getting close to the fun stuff though. Starting to think about schemes. I was close to perfection on my first attempt at metalflake ( Just a small area, but lots of contours), and if Id have stayed with straight gel, or waited til it was warmer to spray, it wouldve been perfect. But It still wouldve been sanded back down because of the color.

I've been slack about posting pictures, its a pita to u/l to my pc, then to photobucket, etc. I had a bunch of shots that got corrupted in the camera, turned out all scrambled, p.o.s. wal-mart camera.

But I will try and make an effort to post more pictures.





Im sanding my ass off, have a lot left to go. Thats all gelcoat "slurry" washing down to the bilge.




This was the other day (night) after spraying the console. You can see the color of the blue behind the black background. The console is a work in progress, I just wanted to try my new cup gun. You know how it is when you get a new tool.




This boat was green when I got it, pretty much. The flake is shot.

I think its going to turn out nice when I get done,it's hard to imagine at this stage, but I can see it. Just a lot of hard work left to go, but getting there slowly.

[xjcraver]

I can't answer any of your questions... But, I think you're doing great so far. I like the way the console looks after you shot it; can't leave it that way!

Just remember, it'll all pay off in the end!

-J

[Fishinjunky]

DUDE !!!!!!!!! MORE PICS OF THIS PROJECT.

Especially of that console !!!!! I gotta see more !!!!!!!

So, you sprayed that console there and it looks that good??? YOU'RE THE MAN !!!!!! Teach me....... please

[A Fn Noob]

My old console was just an angular box. I took the sawzall to it.

I then took a hunk of styrofoam and carved the shape I wanted, and started laying fiberglass (Have to use epoxy, polyester will eat the styrofoam). Then I took a squirt bottle with laquer thinner and sprayed the styrofoam from underneath, which melts the styrofoam. The instrument holes are a plastic piece that I got from Ebay. Im still not done with it yet really, the right side is going to have a section coming down at an angle toward the seat.

I screwed up the last coat, the duratec mixture was thinner than the gelcoat, and I was caught off guard, it made a big mess. Since then Ive got more nozzles for this gun.(The temperature had also fallen from 70 when I did the first coat to about 58 by the time I shot the 3rd, too cold for duratec) Against the black background, the flakes seem almost purple to me. I am going to try a dark blue background, and give it another shot, after I finish sanding the rest of the boat. Then I will have to make my mind up what to do as far as a color scheme.

I may try something like that Cobra boat I mentioned before. White w/ blue flake stripes. It sure would make things much easier.

This has been a huge learning experience, this boat has all new stringers, 4lb foam, new floors. Marine plywood, epoxy, S-glass, E-glass, all that jazz. I was able to make the boat stronger, yet lighter. I'd like to weigh it to see where Im at exactly. When the motor is not attached, I can pick up the back end!

Its late, or Id go into more details on the particulars of this project. I will though. It has been fun so far, except for the sanding, very tedious. And once I shoot more gelcoat, there'll be even more sanding. The big problem was that one of the former owners of this boat painted on a thick coat of clear that turned yellow. It baked into the original finish over the years so deeply that I had to take it down to 40 grit to get it all out. The carpet glue had also fused with the original finish.

This boat is 31 years old, btw. But now it's basically a new boat, structurally anyway. That old Evinrude hanging on the back is just getting broken in.




Modified by A Fn Noob at 12:30 AM 3/2/2007


Modified by A Fn Noob at 12:33 AM 3/2/2007

[Ritchie]

Great work Noob! These projects require learning alot of new skills - and you are ROCKING! I'm still at the gruntin' end of my project and haven't got close to the "nice" stuff. Your console looks great, and glad you shared how you built it. I noticed in one pic your rear deck and another horizontal place inside the deck had been gelled - is that a preferred way for you to work it out? May have been where you were just playin' with your new gun, but I was curious.

[A Fn Noob]

Yes, the last coat I sprayed was clear gel with duratec, it went everywhere so I brushed some onto that rear deck area just to see how it would look. It's all sanded back out now. Those pictures are not in chronological order either, so thats maybe where the confusion is.

What you saw inside the back compartment is where I am reinforcing the lip all the way around that compartment from the inside with Fiberglass "tape". Thats epoxy though, I had mixed some with a drop of white and a 3 drops of blue to the resin to get familiar with mixing colors up.

Everything is epoxied. The only gelcoat Ive shot is that console, and yes I was just playing around. Cost me about 6hrs of sanding! Once I got done with the floor I started playing around with coloring the resin a different color each batch. I had to stitch the sections of top half together that I had cut. It will require more explanation as to exactly where I made the cuts & so forth. Also note that the driver seat has been elongated by about 6-7". But everything Ive done pretty much had to be done in a certain sequence, . Plus, skimming a different color over a previously cured & sanded coat of resin highlights the high and low spots, just like what painters call a "guide coat". Hence the conglomeration of colors on the repaired areas of the deck and seats, etc.

When my sanding is done, I will shoot some more pictures and try and go into details of the surgery I did to the top section and how it was stitched back together. Today I removed the rubrail and did some sanding. 2 more hrs or so of sanding left to do, then I can clean it up and start taping stuff off.

Im surprised noone has asked me about that "grate" section covering one part of the bilge! Thats just a small section I made up as a "proof of concept", I have another longer grate I made that fits over the whole bilge. More on that later.
Edit: I forgot I didnt put in the picture with the plastic grate.



This thing;s not ready for "prime time" yet... I was going to wait til things were cleaned up and presentable to show my project, but I know how y'all like pictures.

P.S. Today I scored a mother load of flakes, 1lb+ of royal blue, and ~1 lb of silver from a dude on Ebay. For dirt cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Unreal cheap.
I could probably flake my house with that much flake.

Here's my tip of the day: There's 2 sellers on Ebay that routinely have excellent deals on boat parts. Lowe_boats and 73SSNova01ks. Im only sharing that info because I've now pretty much acquired all of the stuff I will need to finish my boat.
If you need flakes, 73SSNova01ks had TONS of it for sale, but I imagine it was going fast. He gets stuff from bankrupt boat dealerships and boat mfgrs. - With those posts recently about all those bassboat companies tanking, Id bet there will be a flood of cheap boat stuff on Ebay for months to come, though.




Modified by A Fn Noob at 10:47 AM 3/3/2007

[A Fn Noob]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ritchie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'm still at the gruntin' end of my project and haven't got close to the "nice" stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, the structural stuff, like digging out wet foam, and grinding stringers down, and laying glass, and cutting wood and pouring foam.... that was the EASY part.
The hard part is the cosmetical stuff. The sanding is brutal. And noisy. I try not to operate power tools after dark so the neighbors dont hate me too much. If I was doing this project in a shop, full time, Id have been done back in November

[BASSCAT7]

You are definatley right on the cosmetic part ..LOL...hardest part on any boat...

You are doing one heckuva nice job on that old boat...keep the pics coming with your progress. What size nozzle did you use to shoot the flake on the console ?

Basscat7

[FishMoore]

Man i thought i was doing a lot to my boat. I wish i knew how they sprayed the flake so i could see how it comes out on yours. That blue on the console looked pretty sweet.

Keep up the good work and i hope someone can help you with the color thing.
Keep the pics coming!

[A Fn Noob]

Well, what happened was that nozzle was too big for the duratec/gel and it dumped out about 3/4 of the cup in about 2 sec The front side I just did a bunch of short bursts to make it mist, and there was only just some orange peel to knock down. The back part blasted so much out it made the flake run in spots. But the duratec did make it even out really well considering. I mixed at exactly 2% and the weather got cold, so it was tacky for a long time, but when it cured, it's hard as nails. Im gonna show you tomorrow how it looks now. Its still got to be redone, but the color really came out when I started wet-sanding it out with a long foam pad thingamajig. It looked purple to me with all the orange-peel, but once it smoothed out, I was stunned at how deep blue it is. Like one of those Shelby Cobras with the white racing stripes. Hmmmmmm


I need to wait til it gets to 70 at least to spray any gel at all again. Maybe this weekend. Im doing a lot of detail sanding in the meantime. and have to pull the motor off AGAIN and tape up stuff, and seal the underside of the cap/hull joint with 5200 caulk. (I removed the rubrail yesterday)

Dont worry though I am going to go through the whole process of what I did & how I did it, and what Im doing, and so forth. If a Noob can do it, anyone can
But Im not out of the woods yet.

And I will post more pics tomorrow, the boat looks 100% different just from sanding all the crap down and cleaning up. Im motivated now!

I really need help with deciding what route to take as far as colors & stuff, vs what I have to work with. I have over a POUND of royal-blue flake, and almost a POUND of silver, which I probably wont use but for some stripes to separate colors. Also have about 2 oz of that 'Cobalt Blue'. The 'Royal Blue' looks very similar to the Cobalt Blue, to me anyway. I'll find out tomorrow, maybe on the back side of a lid or something.....
Also have blue, black, white, red & transparent pigments, and a gallon +1 qt of clear-metalflake gelcoat & a gallon of duratec.

ITS GONNA BE SCHWEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ritchie]

Lookin' good Noob! Thanks for explaining some of the pics - the grate center section is interesting. I would like to hear more on your choice of spray gun. I've got to start putting the tools together for the cosmetic part of my job and always interested in what other folks have found to work well (or not!).
Yeah, I'm sure what I call the "grunt" work will be the least stressfull of my project - I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to making stuff look good!

[A Fn Noob]

I bought all my gelcoat,pigment,duratec from USComposites.com
Thats also where I got my big Gelcoat Cup Gun. And most of my fiberglass fabric.
And my 4lb foam. Its important to note that some of the gelcoat products have a shelf life, so its best to get small quantities to experiment with, and order the larger quantities when you're ready to work. I think that anything with styrene or MEKP needs to be fresh. Maybe gelcoats too. The clear gelcoat I have is called "Clear Metalflake Gelcoat".

Rollo advised me to get a small, cheap hvlp gun for spraying small parts where you need more control of the spray. The cup gun is really made for mold production, or spraying big areas. But the cup gun is handy because you dont have to clean it, just throw the paper cup away. Maybe with the smaller nozzles I bought it will be easier to control.

I found a place online that had some Duratec a little cheaper, but I've been ordering things from USComposites in the past and they are on the ball when it comes to getting your order out to you FAST, and always right.


My epoxy resin for my repairs came from epoxyproducts.com. There is a premium non-blushing epoxy that is priced very well, and easy to work with, and cures to diamond-like hardness. My deck is marine plywood sealed with thinned epoxy, and covered with a 6oz cloth, with 2 thin layers of epoxy, enough to cover the weave of the fabric. Its hard as marble, no kidding. The guy that runs epoxyproducts is really a chemical guru, and loves to answer questions.

Fibreglast.com and the West-Systems have a lot of technical information about everything under the sun. The only thing thats hard to find info on is various techniques for doing metalflake jobs. HotBoats.com has some old posts with various tips on that topic.

You have to have the flakes over a dark background color, black is what most boats use. Then the flakes are either sprayed dry with some type of device, or sprinkled on with a big salt-shaker (I like that way), or mixed into a clear gel and sprayed. Then you keep adding thin layers of clear gel. I reccomend the duratec after seeing how its cures much harder than just gelcoat. I only hope that it will hold up over time to UV like gelcoat does.

My epoxy floors have to be coated with something, because UV rays are like kryptonite to epoxy. Plus they are slick now that they have been sanded.

Here is one last picture before I really sand this console down, just to show how the color turned out after wet-sanding. I put some white-pigmented plain old polyester resin in a few places to tweak the shape a little bit.



Here is what my old console looked like when I first got the boat. The steering wheel and seat were built for a midget or something.




I think this is going to be a nice 1-man bassboat. As you can see, there is really no "casting area" to speak of in the back, just some lids and a place for a seat.



I had to test out my my $29.00 HVLP spray gun with 2.0mm tip. It does very well with gelcoat, even without thinner mixed in. Id like to see how it does with a slightly larger tip, but very easy to control. A pain in the buttocks to clean. Ive taped off an area for white stripes and a white triangle-shaped area on the bow. This is the first coat. Im about to hit it again with another coat!

[Ritchie]

Glad to hear you like the disposable cup gun, I had been considering one of those because of the low price but wasn't sure they worked so well.
What weight/type of cloth did you find to work so well on all the contours for your gauges - or is that the area that that is the panel you spoke of earlier?

[A Fn Noob]

Yeah, I got a panel off Ebay for $19 with gauges & switches & livewell timer, I was after the switches and gauges, and was going to toss the plastic panel. Then I decided to just glass it in, and used one of the holes for my steering wheel instead of a gauge.

It came from Lowe boats, they auction stuff off. This one had a TINY scratch in the plastic, but it was meant to be a finished piece, not painted or coated.

[A Fn Noob]

This is a good example of what I was talking about re: background colors.
This is from a dune-buggy site. It shows 2 panels, both flaked with the same blue flake. One was done on a black background, the other with a blue background.