Suzuki 150SS or DF175A for Champion 184

[Nowakb]

I’m looking at repowering my 1991 Champion 184, and trying to decide between the DF175A or the 150SS motor. The boat is rated to 175, but is there a benefit to one motor over the other in this case?

Looking for opinions as I don’t have enough understanding of the SS vs DFA Suzuki motors.

Thanks

[booter]

Get the 175a over the 150SS and enjoy the extra HP. Suzuki doesn’t overpower their motors like Yamaha or Mercury does.

[mcyama]

Very similar units. The 175 will outperform the 150 when it comes to wide-open throttle by about 500 RPM. Significantly higher camshaft, lobes and overlap. With the 40° variable camshaft. The ECM is also different, however wide-open throttle ignition timing remains at 26° advance. a review of your post indicates you have a 1991 model boat and is rated for 150 hp, of course back then all 150s were a V6 model which had much more torque than what the current four cylinders do. If you choose to go with a four-cylinder motor, you want to make sure that the final gear ratio on the model you pick is a 2.50 to 1. Suzuki had tried to utilize the 2.08 gear ratio from the original 300 hp motor however, I never saw it work out very well. The 2.50 gear ratio would work much better on your boat. I would also recommend one of Suzuki’s propellers that they referred to as a water grip propeller. It is larger in diameter to be utilized on the lower gear ratio. If you were to install a 14 inch or 14 1/4 inch propeller I do not think it would perform as you would think. Suzuki builds a 15 x 21.5 pitch propeller that I think would be pretty close for a general application, propeller.

[PatriotAW4]

Very similar units. The 175 will outperform the 150 when it comes to wide-open throttle by about 500 RPM. Significantly higher camshaft, lobes and overlap. With the 40° variable camshaft. The ECM is also different, however wide-open throttle ignition timing remains at 26° advance. a review of your post indicates you have a 1991 model boat and is rated for 150 hp, of course back then all 150s were a V6 model which had much more torque than what the current four cylinders do. If you choose to go with a four-cylinder motor, you want to make sure that the final gear ratio on the model you pick is a 2.50 to 1. Suzuki had tried to utilize the 2.08 gear ratio from the original 300 hp motor however, I never saw it work out very well. The 2.50 gear ratio would work much better on your boat. I would also recommend one of Suzuki’s propellers that they referred to as a water grip propeller. It is larger in diameter to be utilized on the lower gear ratio. If you were to install a 14 inch or 14 1/4 inch propeller I do not think it would perform as you would think. Suzuki builds a 15 x 21.5 pitch propeller that I think would be pretty close for a general application, propeller.

2.50 gear ratio, 21.5" prop on a motor that maxes out at 6100 RPM? You will be hitting the rev limiter before you even get to 50 MPH.

[mcyama]

2.50 gear ratio, 21.5" prop on a motor that maxes out at 6100 RPM? You will be hitting the rev limiter before you even get to 50 MPH.

I agree with your consensus. my recommendation was based on the boat being a 1991 model, with the usual weight gain by water absorption along with bottom denigration. Also taking into consideration, was a tournament load with water in live wells, a partner, fishing tackle, and all the usual additional weight including power poles, full fuel tanks and three lead acid batteries. Yes, it would sacrifice a little top end speed, but the whole shot in deep water would work out well. in the event, that none of the additional weight exist, a much larger propeller could be utilized. Various styles of propellers would increase performance dramatically.

[Nowakb]

Thank you so much for your detailed breakdown. I ended up going with the df175a. I mis-typed in my first post, it’s a 1992 rated for a 175hp. I try to limit the amount of tackle I carry because all of the weight is stored in the front end, with no storage near the back of the boat. It’ll be interesting to see how it performs with the zuki.

The df175a has the 2.5:1 gear ratio as you mentioned above and got the Water Grip 23p prop. I think that’ll be a decent starting point, based on all of your comments and info above.

We have a few months until open water but I’ll let you know how it works out! Thanks very much

[Kellen O]

I’m interested to hear how that motor does for you. That prop is only going to give you about 50 mph according to the Mercury prop calculator. You’ll probably be able to turn at least a 25. I repowered with a Suzuki 140 and the biggest limiting factor for me has been hole shot. I can turn a 25” to the limiter, but anything higher and hole shot will be intolerably slow.

[billnorman1]

You might keep your eyes open for Suzuki props. I stole some when I got my 175DF, off eBay for $50.00 each brand new shipped , 16 inch diameter (diameter is extremely important) and 23 and 24 pitch, 3 blade, a good all around prop, speed was in the mid 50's on a Stratos dual console 275 19'.
At those prices, even with my 200 now, I'd buy them again. I am hard on props, there are things that live underwater that keep attacking them on our local rivers. I now run a 14+ inch Dia Four blade, 27-28 pitch.

[mcyama]

I’m interested to hear how that motor does for you. That prop is only going to give you about 50 mph according to the Mercury prop calculator. You’ll probably be able to turn at least a 25. I repowered with a Suzuki 140 and the biggest limiting factor for me has been hole shot. I can turn a 25” to the limiter, but anything higher and hole shot will be intolerably slow.

review boat, and motor set up, something is terribly wrong! If the motor has the original gear case on it, it would’ve come with a 2.59 to 1 gear ratio. Suzuki has utilized approximately four different gear cases on the mid range models including the 140 hp. gearcase torpedo design is utilized for high duty cycles instead of speed. of course, a review of set up would have to include a verification of the pole setting on the tachometer, and possibly a second for comparison purposes. Verification of propeller diameter, pitch and barrel would have to be verified also. propeller diameter ranges from 13 to 14 inches. additionally, when it comes down to it, I believe there is a cavitation problem. If nothing mechanically can be found. More detailed information of rig and set up would help clear the way.

[Nowakb]

You might keep your eyes open for Suzuki props. I stole some when I got my 175DF, off eBay for $50.00 each brand new shipped , 16 inch diameter (diameter is extremely important) and 23 and 24 pitch, 3 blade, a good all around prop, speed was in the mid 50's on a Stratos dual console 275 19'.
At those prices, even with my 200 now, I'd buy them again. I am hard on props, there are things that live underwater that keep attacking them on our local rivers. I now run a 14+ inch Dia Four blade, 27-28 pitch.

That’s great advice and a great idea on prop too. My 175 2.5xri was running about 52 when it would run, so anything near or faster than that will be nice. I’m hoping the 23 will be a good starting point but I am not opposed to running a 24 and checking it out too.

thanks for the input!

[PatriotAW4]

That’s great advice and a great idea on prop too. My 175 2.5xri was running about 52 when it would run, so anything near or faster than that will be nice. I’m hoping the 23 will be a good starting point but I am not opposed to running a 24 and checking it out too.

thanks for the input!

They will run low 60s with a correctly running and setup 175 XRI so if you set your Suzuki up as poorly as you had your XRI I doubt it will be faster.

[Kellen O]

review boat, and motor set up, something is terribly wrong! If the motor has the original gear case on it, it would’ve come with a 2.59 to 1 gear ratio. Suzuki has utilized approximately four different gear cases on the mid range models including the 140 hp. gearcase torpedo design is utilized for high duty cycles instead of speed. of course, a review of set up would have to include a verification of the pole setting on the tachometer, and possibly a second for comparison purposes. Verification of propeller diameter, pitch and barrel would have to be verified also. propeller diameter ranges from 13 to 14 inches. additionally, when it comes down to it, I believe there is a cavitation problem. If nothing mechanically can be found. More detailed information of rig and set up would help clear the way.

Don’t mean to hijack the thread, but since it’s been quiet for a few days, I’d be interested to hear more input on this. My setup is a Javelin 379. With the 140 B I’m running a trophy plus 25 pitch. I’ve had prop to pad anywhere between 6.5 to 4.5 and it’s about right in the middle now. Manual jackplate, I believe 6”, and I have a hydrafoil on it which helped hole shot. It runs great for what it is. I’m getting 55+ mph on the limiter. Hole shot is my only complaint. It’s not bad currently. With one person very acceptable, with two people and live wells full it’s definitely slower. That was the case with the Johnson 150 too. That motor would run 61.5 with the same setup. I’ve run the boat all over lake st Clair and Lake Erie with this motor and it does great. Once it’s out of the hole it’s plenty responsive even in big waves going only 15 or so mph. Mid range is excellent. Maybe don’t have it dialed perfect but it’s far from “terribly wrong”. Fuel economy is phenomenal.

[mcyama]

Don’t mean to hijack the thread, but since it’s been quiet for a few days, I’d be interested to hear more input on this. My setup is a Javelin 379. With the 140 B I’m running a trophy plus 25 pitch. I’ve had prop to pad anywhere between 6.5 to 4.5 and it’s about right in the middle now. Manual jackplate, I believe 6”, and I have a hydrafoil on it which helped hole shot. It runs great for what it is. I’m getting 55+ mph on the limiter. Hole shot is my only complaint. It’s not bad currently. With one person very acceptable, with two people and live wells full it’s definitely slower. That was the case with the Johnson 150 too. That motor would run 61.5 with the same setup. I’ve run the boat all over lake st Clair and Lake Erie with this motor and it does great. Once it’s out of the hole it’s plenty responsive even in big waves going only 15 or so mph. Mid range is excellent. Maybe don’t have it dialed perfect but it’s far from “terribly wrong”. Fuel economy is phenomenal.

possibly, I jumped overboard with saying something is terribly wrong and for that I Sercombe. Now that more information has been revealed about your rig I have a better understanding. At the time of my outburst I was under the perception you had a Df140A original version. The DF 140 B has had several updates to address consumer complaints of questionable performance and horsepower ratings in comparison to decade old 140 hp two cycle outboard’s, especially the Johnson and Evinrude four-cylinder super looper 140 hp outboard. some examples of these Suzuki updates, are ECM, camshaft, piston and compression ratio, along with intake manifold. hoping to utilize the correct vernacular the DF 140 outboard is quite peaky due to the high camshaft lift and lack of variable camshaft timing, allowing the unit to turn high rpm with a 25 pitch propeller. in conclusion it sounds as though you have done your due diligence along with a water grip on the situation.

[Kellen O]

Thanks for the feedback!

[Nowakb]

Here’s an update on my Suzuki df175a repower of my Champion 184dc. I currently have a Solas Titan 4blade 25p, and I’m hitting the rev limiter at about 3/4 throttle. She has quite a bit left in her and she hops out of the hole, but I am considering going to a 26p or maybe even 27. This may be more difficult than I expected to dial in right

[JoePA]

I think thats a smaller diameter prop and I would try something with a larger diameter. Maybe a 22 lexor or 23 Scorpion.

[Kellen O]

I’d try a 27.

A 23 Scorpion is only going to get 50 mph at 5% slip.

[Nowakb]

I’d try a 27.

A 23 Scorpion is only going to get 50 mph at 5% slip.

I am going to try a 27 hopefully this week. Got busy this weekend, but will report back. Thanks for the input!

[druthomas]

I’m running 58 on a 90’184 df175a 4” atlas 25 scorpion. I have not hit the limiter yet but I haven’t messed with the JP much. That’s a tournament load with 500 pounds of dudes full everything. I have a scorpion 23p to try.

[Nowakb]

I’m running 58 on a 90’184 df175a 4” atlas 25 scorpion. I have not hit the limiter yet but I haven’t messed with the JP much. That’s a tournament load with 500 pounds of dudes full everything. I have a scorpion 23p to try.

Man, your setup is sooooo similar to mine. I have a 6” JP but maybe that scorpion is the move. The hardest part of dialing in is that it’s hard to get my hands on props vs mercury which everyone had.