A 18’ boat with a 150 will still go low 60’s mph. LolOriginally Posted by LDraper
150 hp limit for college anglers would make sense to me, but what do I know?
these hp restrictions threads are funny.
A 18’ boat with a 150 will still go low 60’s mph. Lol150 hp limit for college anglers would make sense to me, but what do I know?
these hp restrictions threads are funny.
96 Viper Coral202 225 Opti serial#1B011431
They sure did, you saw a bunch in the 90s.
Probably because the hp limit was 150hp back then. Was changed to 250hp in 1997 thus starting the increasing numbers of bigger boats that could now be used since a 150 on a 20' was a real pig in performance.
Only in BASS and FLW tournaments. 99% of boat buyers didn't fish in those.
If you fished the Federation and Opens you were limited to the same restrictions I believe. Also, not much selection in 250hp motors during that time but you did have 225's and 300's I think.
Thats just what we need...more stupid rules.
Less government the better...god forbid we be responsible for our own actions...
Does my truck go 120? Sure it does...do i do it? No...simple...samr rules should apply for a boat. And mine is slow for the record lol
2020 Skeeter ZX150
True and I agree but to be fair you don't do 120 I imagine because you don't want a speeding ticket and suffer the associated consequences.
Rick touched on several good things, I have a boat that's gone 93, but most of the time I'm running about 50 to 60. Way before I went fast, I learned how to drive a boat, then I worked my way faster as I went along, most people don't take the time to learn, it is WAY different driving a boat than most anything else
My thought process is the same as giving a kid a key to a high performance car. Old fashion thinking I know.
Kind of how like kids build up to horsepower in the racing world...well, some kids anyway.
I think it will be just the opposite. Boats are getting bigger and a 300 will be standard before much longer.
A great explanation of the multitude of factors that go into a high-powered bass boat and it's performance. Based on all of this information, I wonder how many people are really qualified and competent enough to handle one safely? Regardless of that, I don't think you can "put the toothpaste back in the tube" in this market, and I sincerely doubt that any tournament organizations will lower HP restrictions motors to less than 250.
People don’t realize that boat control is all dependent on 8”-10” of circular blade area and 8” of rudder (skeg).
Nor do they understand how it works. And no boat safety course is going to teach that.
We feel several driver issues occurred at varying date lines, based on bass boat equipment changes. We continue to feel most of the issues today are truly driver error. Many boat drivers today just don’t understand all that’s being held together that’s dependent on one 14 inch circle of bite and an 8” skeg acting as a rudder. Less than 10” of propeller circle surface is holding all of this together. No the hub circle doesn’t count as a 5” round center has no bite. Several circumstances encountered on water can produce negative steering, and loss of control, if one doesn’t understand what’s holding the vessel under control at speeds.
That includes several incidents that have become referred to as mechanical failures. We’ve also worked several mechanical situations and those give warnings in many cases before total failure. And yes we have worked mechanical failures that were truly issues with bolts, connections, nuts, seals, and other aspects.
1. The first was the change and addition of front beaching bumpers that can and do pin the bow (nose) under certain situations.
2. The second was the increase in hydraulic Jack plates. As consumers don’t totally understand the skeg relationship to height and control. Ten years ago the use of hydraulic plates increased exponentially. In the 1990’s we saw hydraulics on some pros boats for shallow water access and tidal areas. This has changed dynamically. Today many bass boats we see in operation are tossing water in the air and that’s engines too high on a loaded bass boat.
2B. Related to that height is the horsepower as people raise engines trying to achieve stronger performance. The increase in horsepower that consumers use, as the Mercury Marine 250 Pro XS became a main line engine and gained more volume. The HPDI and HO engines followed and the change in horsepower really took some beyond where they were with 225 engines. The 250 XB was not nearly as popular, and the Yamaha 250 VMax (carb 2 stroke) did get some increase in popularity just prior to that. After the 250 HO, 250 Pro XS and 250 HPDI this all changed and many consumers gravitated from 150, 175, 200, and 225, to 250 engines or higher.
3. The third is increased Hot Foot use without understanding as users tendencies are to release the hot foot instantly and then they loose that bite the 14” prop (8” to 10” of blades) instantaneously. Trim stalk switches and hydraulic plates have increased hot foot use since the mid 2000’s era. Often the engine is also trimmed up, which releases the bow to fall and the skeg to rise, thus loosing that 6” to 8” of rudder the skeg is. Always trim down softly before backing out of the throttle to retain control.
4. The Bow weight is the fourth change. It started with trolling motors going from 40 pounds to 50 pounds, and now they can near 100 pounds dressed. The incremental increases are mounting, wiring and more. Even more recently the advent of multiple graphs on the bow, increases bow weight, then you add turrets on some. Top that off with graph brackets mounted, which we’ve weighed some at 45 pounds of additionally added bow weight. Today we can easily be 100 pounds heavier than before Spot Lock and multiples graphs, and we’ve seen bow weights as high as 150 pounds. Just move 150 pounds to the bow and see how that works for you? Yes, all dependent on that little skeg and the rotating propellers that need depth and forward thrust, which increases the ramifications on not understanding all of this.
5. Well, fifth are those fang dangled graphs and GPS we all use. Many don’t know how, nor know they can, turn down backlights in the wee dawn hours. Some just fail to do it and suffer night blindness when they return to the horizon from their bright screens. We’ve suspected this one in a couple of fatality incidents. Plus there’s the looking down and not paying attention to your surroundings, that the loss of bearing, or direction, and obstacles are not moving, we are. Then there those that run at night and in fog like they know where they are going. They don’t know what else is moving around them as we don’t have radar. Even if we did that floater on Sam Rayburn or Lake Fork won’t show up. Which is where starting some events at daylight puts all of us running pre-dawn and without visuals.
6. Yes sixth is the later developments of retail explosion in the lithium battery market. People drop all that weight and usually those are the ones who added 75-100 pounds on their bows, and more midship with dual and triple dash graphs. The feeling seems to be we can now raise our engine to gain performance because we have less weight? This is not the right method.
In most daily used bass boats, we don’t surface the gearcase, we keep it in the water, which again only the lower 3/4 of that prop circle is getting bite, or traction. In reality the boat now runs higher, because you dropped weight, just like running on 5 gallon of fuel, and one person, verses 50 gallons of fuel and two people.
If you change batteries to lithium, you should lower the engine to regain the former bite, as the hull will often run another 1/4” to 1/2” higher in the rear. Raising the plate lowers the bite, which you have already lost bite with the weight loss. Losing weight is no different in a boat than a vehicle, they slow down when they get heavier and speed up when lighter. There are other potential balance effects, though it’s all dependent on that 10” of blade surface and 8” of rudder. Which also may require a totally different propeller to get the required handling and connection to the water.
We aren’t putting rubber on a hard surface like the old days of slicks, remembering traction bars and those big L50 Mickey Thompson’s on your muscle car.
We are trying to hold a bass boat that can exceed 4,000 to 5,000 pounds and get handling with 10” of with stainless surface at varying flexing thicknesses. All of that in a liquid medium that has virtually no grip itself. Sure it’s not oil, though it’s also not nearly as thick as oil.
After that it all becomes dependent on the driver to understand what’s happening, which most we find do not. And I’m sure this will be contested by many who know more than any of us about driving, building, setting up, or handling a competitor bass boat today.
I hope this breaks it down and helps those who don’t understand what’s happening. If this read helps one person to help another, then it gained more than I could ever ask for.
Thanks all,
Rick
PS: I apologize for any grammatical errors. Church is over and I’ve got to make hay, grass to cut or soemth8gn.
Are all accidents in tournaments caused by speeds over 55mph and involving 225hp and above motors or would this be one of those knee jerk deals just to say something was done?
What a perfect explanation of how it all works. Thank you Rick.People don’t realize that boat control is all dependent on 8”-10” of circular blade area and 8” of rudder (skeg).
Nor do they understand how it works. And no boat safety course is going to teach that.
We feel several driver issues occurred at varying date lines, based on bass boat equipment changes. We continue to feel most of the issues today are truly driver error. Many boat drivers today just don’t understand all that’s being held together that’s dependent on one 14 inch circle of bite and an 8” skeg acting as a rudder. Less than 10” of propeller circle surface is holding all of this together. No the hub circle doesn’t count as a 5” round center has no bite. Several circumstances encountered on water can produce negative steering, and loss of control, if one doesn’t understand what’s holding the vessel under control at speeds.
That includes several incidents that have become referred to as mechanical failures. We’ve also worked several mechanical situations and those give warnings in many cases before total failure. And yes we have worked mechanical failures that were truly issues with bolts, connections, nuts, seals, and other aspects.
1. The first was the change and addition of front beaching bumpers that can and do pin the bow (nose) under certain situations.
2. The second was the increase in hydraulic Jack plates. As consumers don’t totally understand the skeg relationship to height and control. Ten years ago the use of hydraulic plates increased exponentially. In the 1990’s we saw hydraulics on some pros boats for shallow water access and tidal areas. This has changed dynamically. Today many bass boats we see in operation are tossing water in the air and that’s engines too high on a loaded bass boat.
2B. Related to that height is the horsepower as people raise engines trying to achieve stronger performance. The increase in horsepower that consumers use, as the Mercury Marine 250 Pro XS became a main line engine and gained more volume. The HPDI and HO engines followed and the change in horsepower really took some beyond where they were with 225 engines. The 250 XB was not nearly as popular, and the Yamaha 250 VMax (carb 2 stroke) did get some increase in popularity just prior to that. After the 250 HO, 250 Pro XS and 250 HPDI this all changed and many consumers gravitated from 150, 175, 200, and 225, to 250 engines or higher.
3. The third is increased Hot Foot use without understanding as users tendencies are to release the hot foot instantly and then they loose that bite the 14” prop (8” to 10” of blades) instantaneously. Trim stalk switches and hydraulic plates have increased hot foot use since the mid 2000’s era. Often the engine is also trimmed up, which releases the bow to fall and the skeg to rise, thus loosing that 6” to 8” of rudder the skeg is. Always trim down softly before backing out of the throttle to retain control.
4. The Bow weight is the fourth change. It started with trolling motors going from 40 pounds to 50 pounds, and now they can near 100 pounds dressed. The incremental increases are mounting, wiring and more. Even more recently the advent of multiple graphs on the bow, increases bow weight, then you add turrets on some. Top that off with graph brackets mounted, which we’ve weighed some at 45 pounds of additionally added bow weight. Today we can easily be 100 pounds heavier than before Spot Lock and multiples graphs, and we’ve seen bow weights as high as 150 pounds. Just move 150 pounds to the bow and see how that works for you? Yes, all dependent on that little skeg and the rotating propellers that need depth and forward thrust, which increases the ramifications on not understanding all of this.
5. Well, fifth are those fang dangled graphs and GPS we all use. Many don’t know how, nor know they can, turn down backlights in the wee dawn hours. Some just fail to do it and suffer night blindness when they return to the horizon from their bright screens. We’ve suspected this one in a couple of fatality incidents. Plus there’s the looking down and not paying attention to your surroundings, that the loss of bearing, or direction, and obstacles are not moving, we are. Then there those that run at night and in fog like they know where they are going. They don’t know what else is moving around them as we don’t have radar. Even if we did that floater on Sam Rayburn or Lake Fork won’t show up. Which is where starting some events at daylight puts all of us running pre-dawn and without visuals.
6. Yes sixth is the later developments of retail explosion in the lithium battery market. People drop all that weight and usually those are the ones who added 75-100 pounds on their bows, and more midship with dual and triple dash graphs. The feeling seems to be we can now raise our engine to gain performance because we have less weight? This is not the right method.
In most daily used bass boats, we don’t surface the gearcase, we keep it in the water, which again only the lower 3/4 of that prop circle is getting bite, or traction. In reality the boat now runs higher, because you dropped weight, just like running on 5 gallon of fuel, and one person, verses 50 gallons of fuel and two people.
If you change batteries to lithium, you should lower the engine to regain the former bite, as the hull will often run another 1/4” to 1/2” higher in the rear. Raising the plate lowers the bite, which you have already lost bite with the weight loss. Losing weight is no different in a boat than a vehicle, they slow down when they get heavier and speed up when lighter. There are other potential balance effects, though it’s all dependent on that 10” of blade surface and 8” of rudder. Which also may require a totally different propeller to get the required handling and connection to the water.
We aren’t putting rubber on a hard surface like the old days of slicks, remembering traction bars and those big L50 Mickey Thompson’s on your muscle car.
We are trying to hold a bass boat that can exceed 4,000 to 5,000 pounds and get handling with 10” of with stainless surface at varying flexing thicknesses. All of that in a liquid medium that has virtually no grip itself. Sure it’s not oil, though it’s also not nearly as thick as oil.
After that it all becomes dependent on the driver to understand what’s happening, which most we find do not. And I’m sure this will be contested by many who know more than any of us about driving, building, setting up, or handling a competitor bass boat today.
I hope this breaks it down and helps those who don’t understand what’s happening. If this read helps one person to help another, then it gained more than I could ever ask for.
Thanks all,
Rick
PS: I apologize for any grammatical errors. Church is over and I’ve got to make hay, grass to cut or soemth8gn.
I hope they don’t put up rating on tournaments, they already tried that years ago .
Years ago, a dude in a Tracker with a 60 on the back managed to wrap it around a bridge pylon on Neely Henry during a blast off, so nah. With that said, one way to look at it is, luckily it was only a 60 on the back of it. It is a tit for tat argument for days.
as a co what i see is most boaters think they must haul ass everywhere they go regardless fog, light, or boat wakes. there are a lot of inexperienced drivers now with high powered rigs that should not be operating balls to the wall in all conditions. can they drive? yes a few can, but can they discern what is safe to be the next "ONE? i do not think that promoting safe boat operation is a priority of most tourney trails.
I think the real issue is that is and has and always will be stupid people the pushing the limits. I think you can pretty much get into trouble at any relatively high powered boats. I don't care if you have 150hp at 55mph or 300+hp. Many people don't have the common sense to operate in a safe manner.
By the way... it's even worse in the general non-bassboat crowd
Cheers...
BASS notified us last week that a Boater Safety Course will be required for all boaters starting in 2025. I think any state approved course will count.
I hit a floater going nearly 80 in 2014 - it was no bigger than my arm, and it turned me 180 degrees. Didn't go well. In retrospect, I remembered seeing it just as it went under the boat, and I think I reflexively let off the hot foot. That little bit was enough to pitch the nose down, and it was like a bomb went off. I've got zero issues with a sub 60 mph big boat now lol.
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