Question about timing for a 95 225 Super Mag/Pro Max 2.5?

[SR-5]

I had some work done on my Super Mag and they told me they had to turn my timing down to factory specs. I think he said it was around 40 and they turned it down to 20. I don't like the loss of power. Before I was running about 6200rpms and around 70-73mph at full throttle. Now is 5400rpms and 58mph.
They told me I'd have to sign a release for them to turn it back up because it would be above factory spec and could blow the motor. I've had the motor for 7 years, powerhead has been rebuilt, new sportmaster lower unit, and lots of other new parts. It's always ran in the 6000rpm range.
I want to turn the timing back up, but I don't want to blow it. What do y'all think?
Thanks



Modified by SR-5 at 4:48 PM 10/28/2011

[JaySmithRacing]

There's NO WAY your timing was 40 PERIOD ! If your spark stabilizer is connected , disconnect it and the rear heat sencor and set WOT timing to 24 ish. Connect back up and your ready to go..


Your Mercury mechanic fell from a coconut tree !!!!
Jay

[SR-5]

You're right about them falling from a coconut tree or something. I had a simple task for them and all they did was make things worse. This is the only time they have touched my motor, and I don't want to take it back to them. I'd really like to go back to European Marine when they have time. They really know there stuff when it comes to this motor.

Thanks Jay, Eric

[JaySmithRacing]

EUROPEAN MARINE is # 1

Jay

[AllyFishing]

Trust me....take it back to Don!!! If I lived in SC that's where I would take it.

[EuropeanAM]

Eric:

I FULLY agree with Jay... there's ABSOLUTELY no way that engine was at 40 degrees BTDC.

Give us a holler.... we'll try to squeeze you in somewhere (pretty busy with the sudden cold snap).

[SR-5]

Thanks Don. I'd really appreciate your help with this. I'm not going to name names on here, but I think though guys are idiots. I'll call you later.

[EuropeanAM]

We'll be in touch in a few days.

[EuropeanAM]

Eric:

I know we've already talked.... and you're aware of the items that have been (and are being) addressed on your engine.

Just though I'd update here. As techs, we all get the opportunity (several times) to perform a Sync-n-Link proceedure on 2.5L engines (they're intentially botched by an instructor prior to our opportunity).

Let's just say I don't recall ever seeing one that was so far off, in EVERY single setting. Not even the timing pointer was correct- idle timing was jacked up to 8BTDC, throttle plate almost completely closed, WOT timing at 18 BTDC, throttle stop screw 1/2" from even touching linkage, and the TPS was set at .76 VDC.

ECU connector wasn't even snapped into the holder- and the retaining ring is MIA (gone). It's no wonder the thing wouldn't run....

We'll have all of that straightened out this week....

We've retightened the tuner (it was LOOSE... and you have at least two bolts missing)- this should be addressed via disassembly and appropriate repair as soon as you're able.

[jimmy erwin]

hey europeanM can u walk us through the sync-n-link procedure for 2.5

[EuropeanAM]

This is covered in-depth in service manuals (and those instructions are indeed specific to the engine covered in the manual).

Although most 2.5L models are indeed nearly identical, there are some differences that must be taken into account when performing a Sync-n-Link proceedure.

Basic Steps:

-Confirm Timing Pointer accuracy via use of DIAL INDICATOR (better yet- index ALL SIX cylinders with marks)

-Confirm throttle pickup position, alignment of throttle linkage, and idle timing

-Confirm WOT timing

-Confirm WOT throttle linkage stop allows plates to reach WOT position

-EFI/Laser Models: Adjust TPS to specification

-Adjust idle speed.

[wrechin2]

Here is a link to a factory manual that covers 135-225 92-00. It will have the link and sync in it and will tell you the differecnces in the promax precedure.

Hope this helps!
http://www.mediafire.com/?zznthjjywde

[wrechin2]

I also had one that was way out and what had happened was someone had taken the flywheel off with the bolts on top and did not get it back correctly. I found this when I went to veryify the pointer. Even though this engine has the solid 40amp someone could have put the stamped steel flywheel on it from a 89-91 engine and done the same thing. Sometimes the exchangability of the V-6 parts is a bad thing! Never know what you can get into. Glad you shared what you had found.

[JaySmithRacing]

Don we agree 100 % on the dial indication ( but we always do !!! ) ,


I have dial indicated the last 50 or so motors I've built and repaired using my JSRE dial indicator and you will be amazed how many of the ignition systems are way off.

If you own/know of a JSRE rebuilt engine you will notice there are 7 marks on ALL flywheels . 1 to confirm exact TDC pointer accuracy ( flywheel mark to static pointer ) the next 6 are at .150" or 25*,after marks are accurately transposed, I shoot them all in at WOT with timing light advance dial set at zero degrees . IMO you MUST choose the highest reading bore and set that one at 25* IMO it will save allot of motors insuring 1 is not very high ,doing this 15 minute step to confirm timing accurace across the complete engine is IMO a MUST and something ANY competent engine builder should be aware of and be doing..

If your getting one worked on or built quiz the guy about indexing the ignition in ( all of them ) and if he looks at you "like a chicken lookin at a card trick" run from that dude and find you a REAL mechanic/engine builder..If ya don't you may have a short lived rebuild..

ALL that I tell you guys isn't from a" funny book",read from an outhouse wall , or something someone else says on some forum its from MY school of observed failures and hard knocks and if I can steer people away from "issues" I am more than willing to do so, IF the interested choose to listen and heed the warnings.


Jay

[wrechin2]

For the engine builders who do not install new switchboxes, you will also be checking to see if you have a switchbox that is doublefiring which could have taken out the engine in the first place. I always install new boxes due to I have found a lot of bad boxes while performing the timing test.

[JaySmithRacing]

Thats what the flywheel indexing is for and what Don and I suggested as a troubleshooting clairification path....... If all are indexed you can SEE the switch box double firing and don't need to waste an additional 450.00 of the customers money if not needed and all check...

FYI: I've seen NEW switchboxes, stators be bad to !

Folks don't think because they are out of a box they are 100% ON!!!I buy NOTHING but Mercury electrics but I have even seen those new bad ..


I'm tight as a midget's fist with my customer's money

Well no time to chit chat got 3 sets of customer's rods to weight match and prep.

Jay...

[wrechin2]

Always 2 ways to skin a cat as you always say....

The main purpose is to find the highest timed cylinder and set the timing on it as you stated especially when pushing the envelope. There wasn't even any mention of checking for double firing in you original post (I just checked to make double sure) and that is why I posted so that others would be clearly informed.

I warranty ALL my engines for 1 year modified or stock. I am not going to take a chance that a box that test good today and goes out in 3 weeks or 3 months and takes out the engine and gets into my wallet. Just my business pratices. I always explain to the customer that it may test good today and go out tomorrow and kill the engine and are fine with it. Most of my customers are die hard tournament fishermen and can't afford to be out of the game for long. Just like you, I have plenty of happy customers with my practices

[JaySmithRacing]

Sounds like we agree on a few points ..

Although I've never seen a guy that could predict an electrical part failure ( new or used ) , as good as a mechanic thinks he is or how much new parts and tests he performs thats impossible..

Have a great day........

Jay

[EuropeanAM]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by JaySmithRacing &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote"> FYI: I've seen NEW switchboxes, stators be bad to !

Folks don't think because they are out of a box they are 100% ON!!!I buy NOTHING but Mercury electrics but I have even seen those new bad ..

</td></tr></table>

+100!!!

The short of it: NEW does NOT NECESSARILY mean GOOD. <u>Always</u> keep this in mind... ESPECIALLY when dealing with ANY electonic device.

This goes for TIMING LIGHTS as well. As much as I hate to admit it... one of my high-dollar timing lights recently went on the blink (it FUNCTIONED, but was displaying an advanced signal, resulting in RETARDED timing).

That was my lesson for the day- CONFIRM results TWICE with two lights. Really stinks when you have to back-peddle and recheck your work.