Johnson 225 90 degree looper bogs down

[86 inches]

1994 Venom 225 J225STLERK

This motor has been siting for a couple of years but recently was made ready for service by one of the better shops in Phoenix. Prior to taking it in, I had removed and replaced the gas tank and all of the hoses from fill hose to motor. Fuel water separator and in-line filters were changes as well. The mechanic was told all of this and was asked to do everything that was needed to get this motor in tip top shape.

The report was that the motor was actually in very good shape an ran good. Compression on all six was 115. He said the carbs were fine and didn't need a rebuild. He did have to replace the VRO pump. He also had to replace a broken spark advance.

Took it to the lake yesterday. It starts up fine. Idling out of the no wake zone was good. It even got up on plane and ran great. After cruising around for 30 minutes I shut her down. It started back up easily but would bog down and die when trying to get on plane. It would start and idle fine but after putting it in gear and giving it just a little gas it would die. The only way I could get it on plane was to have my son constantly squeeze the primer bulb as I gradually gave it throttle until the motor got up to a couple thousand RPM.

By the time we took it out of the water it would idle in gear put if I put it in neutral it would die and if I put ANY pressure on the hot foot it would bog down.

Now this motor has had this problem before. Seems like a long time ago it did this and was fixed but I don't recall what the problem was. Also, the last time I had it out it did something similar but not quite as bad.

I've done a pretty good search on the topic and I think I have some ideas but I would like to hear what you all think and where I should start.


Modified by 86 inches at 8:18 AM 5/15/2011

[86 inches]

I put it on the hose this morning and let 'er warm up. The I ran the trim up and watched the RPMS. They dropped off just as I began to trim up but at full trim (not tilt) they were right back where they started... 1200. Same thing trimming down, RPMs drop down a couple a hundred and then climb back up to where they were at 1200. I can hear those changes as the motor drops and then regains its RPM.

I haven't pulled the recirc valves yet but I did notice that the top one on the intake manifold port side had a little bit of gas right under the fitting. Looked like it might be leaking at the fitting. The hose looked good. Also, the top recirc valve on the starboard side looked odd. All the other fittings look like they screw tight into the manifold. This one looks like there is a split ring behind it... either that or I'm looking at the threads and its not in all the way. It wasn't leaking.


Modified by 86 inches at 2:43 PM 5/15/2011

[ChampioNman]

What altitude you running at? And you what grade fuel are you running? You could try backing off the idle jets 1/2-1 full turn. Just keep track as to which one you did what too. Give the adjustments a few seconds and do it in the water or in a tank.

[86 inches]

About 1500 ft. 87 octane. Idle jets... OK... gotta find them... don't know where they are...

[86 inches]

I'm guessing the idle jets are adjusted by turning the screws that are accessed via the holes in the air silencer cover. They are marked Rich-Lean. One for each carb. Correct?

Seems like I did that years ago when I had this problem. I'll try it. I think that I found the procedure description in the manual.

You don't think its the recirculation system, huh?

Would the mechanic have done a link and synch as part of standard procedure when putting a motor like mine back in service?

[ChampioNman]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by 86 inches &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I'm guessing the idle jets are adjusted by turning the screws that are accessed via the holes in the air silencer cover. They are marked Rich-Lean. One for each carb. Correct?

Seems like I did that years ago when I had this problem. I'll try it. I think that I found the procedure description in the manual.

You don't think its the recirculation system, huh?

Would the mechanic have done a link and synch as part of standard procedure when putting a motor like mine back in service?</td></tr></table>

The mechanic should have done a sync n link when he was working on it. No telling if he did or not. But a quick once over by you would verify. Make sure all the plates are opening fully and at the same time. Verify the clear roller is over the black post on the throttle arm. If it isn't touching the timing cam you can loosen the phillips head screw and move it so it comes in contact with the cam. Altitude does make a big difference in performance with a carbed motor and even more so with the E-10 gas. You can certainly remove each recirc valve and test them it is easy to do. If they are plugged then soak them overnight in an aluminum pan with isoprophyl alcohol and clean the screens with a light wire brush. I think that adjusting the idle jets will help though. Take a piece of masking tape and put it on each adjustment port and mark how much you have adjusted each carb so you can go back and re-adjust if needed. I has to be done in the water and you have to wait a few seconds before moving on to the next one.

[86 inches]

lets see if I got this right...

boat in water, motor warmed up, in gear and idling forward...
coughs or sneezes... turn 1/8 inch CW, wait 15 secs, repeat until highest consistent RPM
rough or unsteady... turn 1/8 inch CCW, wait 15 secs, repeat until highest consistent RPM

move to next adjustment screw and repeat above.
Repeat for each carb.

run at WOT, return to idle, idle should be smooth.

That's how the manual describes it.

Do I have it right?

I don't recall it coughing or sneezing. Maybe rough... not sure. It seemed like it would just die.

[ChampioNman]

That's how you do it. Only suggesting the adjustment to help out the bogging.

[86 inches]

I'm sorry... you are suggesting "backing off" the idle adjustment screws? I should start by turning them CCW... leaning out the carbs? Right?

[86 inches]

Gave it a try today with very mixed results. After tweaking the idle settings I got the RPMs up from about 400 when idling forward to about 750. Then with a little extra tweaking I got it so that it would 'grab' at about 1600 or so. At that point I had it so that even though it was a little gutless for a second or two, staying on the gas it would kick in and take off.

I took it out of the no wake zone and popped it up on plane 4 or 5 times and though not perfect it did launch every time. Then I ran the lake for 40 minutes or so and brought it back. Unfortunately, as soon as I let her idle down and tried to get up again it did the same thing... bogged down with just the slightest touch on the hotfoot.

So I pulled the cowling off and did some more tweaking. Got it so that it would 'grab' again and took 'er back out. This time I put the air silencer back on it and it seemed better but it was still just a little weak until it got to around 1600 or 1800. At that point it would launch very strong. I did some more cruising and then did a bunch of stop and starts and it continued to do pretty good.

But when I got back to the ramp I couldn't get it to power load on the trailer. It would just die with just the slightest pressure against the trailer. Dang it! Back in the day, that motor could almost push my truck up the ramp. I don't get it. Very frustrating. I have no confidence that it will be able to get up on plane next time out.

A couple of notes...

When it wouldn't power up out of the hole I noticed that the primer bulb was a little soft. Squeezing it 'seemed' to help. But when pushing it onto the trailer it did not.

Leaning out was not the direction it wanted. I ended up enriching anywhere from an 1/4 to 3/4 turns. An 1/8 to a 1/4 too much in either direction on any of the carbs just killed it as soon as I gave it a little gas.

The other day I could not idle forward with any speed. It would idle but as soon as I put my foot on the gas it would die. Today... when it was running good... I could give it gas and it would go... I could even make it 'cheat ' in the no wake zone.

I was surprised at how fast this boat was. The lake was pretty rough and there was a good wind so I didn't have any good smooth water but even as it was she ran 65 GPS at 5800... and that's with the flippin deck insert, a full tank of gas and my 4 blade 25p Renegade. (I haven't had a chance to put on the Tempest.)

[THE WITCHDOCTOR]

So when you say"tweaking", what exactly were you adjusting?

[86 inches]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by THE WITCHDOCTOR &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">So when you say"tweaking", what exactly were you adjusting?</td></tr></table>

Idle jets. The adjustment screws that can be turned through the air silencer cover.

[ChampioNman]

Looks like you are making progress. Next step would be to "T" in a clear piece of hose into the fuel line and check for air bubbles when running the motor.

[86 inches]

OK.

I'm guessing that his check can be done on the hose... or do I need to take it to the lake?

[86 inches]

And... when you say "T-in" I'm assuming that I can do an end to end splice between the thru-splashwell fitting and the tank-side hose of the primer bulb. Yeah?

All of the hose is new BRP one piece hose and bulb and all of the hoses in the boat are new, too. The VRO pump was replaced, as well.

[86 inches]

Decided to let the pros take another shot at this. They vacuum tested the fuel line and found no leaks. They said they found that the #4 carb was clogged so they rebuilt it. They were sure that they had fixed the problem. I was less confident.

Took it to the lake yesterday and it is still doing the same thing.

Could this be an electrical problem?

Any other ideas?

I'm gonna take it back to them this morning. They are going to have to take it to the lake themselves. I'm a bit frustrated with paying them to do things that don't fix the problem. Where does it stop?

[ChampioNman]

Just a quick question when you are running at idle and it bogs have you pushed in the choke to see if it picks up? If it does then you still have a fuel issue, if not then it is electrical.

[86 inches]

When I was on the lake I remembered a post where you asked someone the same question so I did try it. Pushing the choke did not help.

When I dropped it off this morning, I gave the mechanic that information. He said that was helpful and was glad that I had checked that. However, he seemed to think that the motor "was getting good spark"... whatever that means. He agreed that it wasn't a fuel delivery issue but he seemed to be at a bit of a loss on what what wrong. He was leaning towards it still being a carburetor issue... maybe something sticking in the intermediate something... I thought he said intermediate tubes - he didn't say orifice.

Back in 99 I blew the powerhead and it was replaced under warranty at a different shop. Shortly after that, I changed shops and began going to this one. I showed him a receipt from just after the rebuild where I was having the same issue... "engine dies at lower power when trying to put on trailer." At that time they replaced the power pack. They also replaced the"Reg Rectifier"... I don't know what that is but it was a $200 part. I wish I had a better memory but I'm guessing that it fixed the problem because back then I was fishing at least three times a week and I don't think that I would have been able to tolerate this frustration.

Back in 05 they rebuilt the carbs. After that the problem recurred. I never took it back to them because... well... about that time I lost interest in fishing and quit using the boat.

The problem for the mechanic, I guess, is that he is unable to reproduce the symptoms. They have a tank but it isn't baffled so he can't put any back pressure against the motor. To do that he would have to take it to the lake and the closest lake is 30 miles away. He did say that he might have to do that.

Oh... I also wondered if the thermostat might be sticking and not allowing the motor to warm up but even after idling the motor for a long time it still did the same thing. I then checked it after running the lake at WOT for 20 minutes or so, stopping and immediately taking it right back on plane. It seemed to do fine. But if I let it sit for 5 minutes it was back to the same problem. I mentioned this to the mechanic and he said that he had already checked the thermostat and it was OK.

I wish I understood more about these motors to be able to give better information.

[ChampioNman]

Intermittent problems are the worst to fix and trying via the internet compounds matters.

[86 inches]

I certainly understand.

The mechanic seems to be a good one... very knowledgeable and very professional. He honestly appeared to feel my pain and I'm sure that he wants to get this thing fixed.

I was sure to let him know that I understood that sometimes problems are difficult to solve and I appreciated his hard work.