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  1. #1
    Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    "Water Pressure 101"- Poppet Valves and Variables with Water Pressure

    This post is in reponse to many others where questions of water pressure have been raised, especially people claiming their water pressure is 30 psi.
    First, for the purpose of this exercise, let's say we have 3.0L Merc... an Optimax (although EFI/CARB results are similar). Consider it a perfect world- a brand new, complete water pump, a brand new, unrestricted block, new thermostats, and a brand new poppet valve assembly- seat, spring, diaphram and all, with a verified Pitot Sender operating a Smartcraft Instrument!

    The customer states he has 30psi water pressure at WOT, and he is worried about this. Hold on now... before you say his poppet valve is bad.

    Going back over the years through the service manuals, most of them simply instructed (and this is commonly missed) to test water pressure on a garden hose flush attachment, or in a test tank. This is NOT the same as the customer's complaint... because his engine is mounted on a bass boat, which is traveling (or better be) at 60-85 MPH while he is looking at his pressure reading. BIG DIFFERENCE!

    No-where in any service literature I have read does it indicate that you should take WOT water pressure readings with the boat traveling, let's say in this case, 70 MPH. (Later manuals have a footnote regarding this, which states specifically, "Ram pressure is the water pressure created from water forced into the gearcase inlet holes as the boat travels forward. As speed increases, ram pressure increases. Water pressure may vary as ram pressure increases. Do not exceed specifications."

    So, what ALSO needs to be considered is RAM PRESSURE. There are a ton of variables here, which include, but are not limited to hull shape, hull speed, engine mounting height, water temperature, low water pickups, etc. etc. Basic physics tells us that as the pressure at the water inlets increases, so does the pressure on the other end, regardless of how "good" the poppet valve is, period. It's not rocket science, it's just the way it is.

    This particular "phantom or hypothetical customer" is not overheating, he has no warning horn, there is no freeze frame history in his ECM/PCM to indicate an overheat. So why is he reading 30psi water pressure? The answer is simply "Too much ram pressure".

    In general, the poppet valve in his particular engine should be capable of limiting water pressure to a maximum of 25 psi (let's say it's a 225 Pro XS). That's based on a "mean-average" of boat combinations, but because he is on a jackplate, with a setback (it doesn't matter how much for this excercise), he's got enough "Ram Pressure" (the physics term would be "head pressure") to increase his water pressure to the point that the poppet valve just cannot keep up.

    So what do we do? Going strictly "by the book", we need to either:

    1. Slow the boat down to decrease Ram Pressure (he won't like this idea!)

    2. Change the engine mounting height to bring the water pressure into spec

    -or-, we can:

    3. Leave it alone... it's not overheating.

    4. Put a Hydraulic Jackplate on the boat and inform the customer where to keep
    his water pressure.

    #2 is a better choice, but may cause top end speed increase (or decrease), as well as hole-shot gain (or loss). So all we can do is try it- and see where he ends up.

    #4 is my preferred choice, because it allows the customer to vary engine height based on boat load, etc. But this fellow just spent $50K+ on his boat... and he's not inclined to spend another $1K+ on a jackplate, installed.....

    So, NOT IN EVERY CASE, but in some high-speed, high performance applications, the only choice left may be #3. Now I know there are a lot of you thinking "this guy's wrong... I've been to the classes, and I know what the manual says." Take it with a grain of salt here, guys. There is no way, whatsoever, that the spec's given can strictly apply to every single application, from a non-planing work hull to a 70+MPH performance bass boat. And let's face it, most of the folks on these boards are running the later, not the earlier!

    So the moral of the story here is: Temper "specification" with real-world physics. If the guy is only 3-6 psi out of range, and he's not overheating, and hasn't been in the last 50-100 hours, odd's are his poppet valve is NOT faulty. He's in a lot better shape than he would be with LOW water pressure!

    That being said, WHEN IN DOUBT, change it out. Regular, timely water pump, thermostat, and poppet valve inspection (or replacement) can, and often does, "save the day" when it comes to time on the water!

    Just a request now, for my fellow guru's: before you hammer me to death, please go out on the lake and try it. By the time you come back, you'll understand the "ram pressure" theory very well, and have taken a dozen or so WOT readings at different mounting heights, with a fairly wide range of water pressure results!
    3/4" mounting height can make more than a 5psi difference in some cases!

    "General" Water pressure MINIMUM requirements by engine type:

    3.0/3.2L & Verado 1.5 to 3psi at idle, 15 psi at WOT
    2.5 Liter: 2-5 psi at idle, 12 psi at WOT.

    Remember... these are the "MINIMUMS". Your results may vary.



    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 48 years (learn something new every day).
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    #2
    Don can give you more info than me but I had a psi issue with my port motor after running aground on a sandbar, luckly I was only at idle speed. The water pump was in good shape so I pulled the poppet valve and found some debris in it, the debri had also torn the diaphram. Ordered a new one from Don and all was good after.
    What boat do you have?

  3. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 48 years (learn something new every day).
    Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor

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    #4
    I have a 95 225 efi. Just replaced the lower unit with a used one from a 98 225efi. I also replaced the water pump. After putting the muff on it and hose I am getting good pressure and flow out of the telltale. It will shoot it out over 3' at idle. BUT I have NO water coming out of my pressure gauge hose. Cut and spliced the hose about 1 foot from where it going in the lower unit and I can blow through it but still no WATER flow even after motor warms up. I can fill the telltale water change from cold to hot so I'm sure the Tstats are working. Should I get water flow to the gauge at idle on the hose? I also ran it up to around 1800 after Tstats opened but still no flow.

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    #5
    doesnt go in lowerunit goes in powerhead base of block beside telltale fitting
    .................................................. ...the scariest thing in life is the unknown ...................................

  6. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #6
    ^^^^ +1

    That hose coming from the gearcase is the Pitot (Analog SPEED) tube.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 48 years (learn something new every day).
    Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor

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    #7
    Hi Don...I have been dealing with this for a long time on my boat. I am running close to 30PSI at WOT on my Champ 198 with a 225ProXS. Its not overheating and I know its not "steam pressure". Let me first ask, why is pressure higher than 25psi a bad thing? My buddies say if the water pressure is too high then there must be a concern about that being steam pressure and not water pressure (and the motor is overheating). Just trying to understand why water pressure of 30 at WOT would be a problem (using 30 psi as an example). What is the desire to keep it to 25? Is that because if the pressure is higher than 25 then the poppet valve opens (that where I believe you said the thermostats are no longer effective) meaning that the water is no longer cooling the cylinders (just going out the poppet valve and not flowing through the motor properly)??? Again...just trying to understand the problem with having high water pressure as I have this exact problem on my boat/motor setup (at the current motor height). I am going to install a hydraulic jackplate in the spring. I am concerned that if I raise the motor too high to reduce the water pressure, then I run into the performance problems associated with the motor being too high. Very interesting discussion and I totally understand the ram pressure theory as I thought this is exactly what was happening on my particular boat. I really was not concerned about the pressure being high cause the motor wasn't overheating (but now you have me thinking).

  8. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by basspro57 View Post
    Hi Don...I have been dealing with this for a long time on my boat. I am running close to 30PSI at WOT on my Champ 198 with a 225ProXS. Its not overheating and I know its not "steam pressure". Let me first ask, why is pressure higher than 25psi a bad thing? My buddies say if the water pressure is too high then there must be a concern about that being steam pressure and not water pressure (and the motor is overheating). Just trying to understand why water pressure of 30 at WOT would be a problem (using 30 psi as an example). What is the desire to keep it to 25? Is that because if the pressure is higher than 25 then the poppet valve opens (that where I believe you said the thermostats are no longer effective) meaning that the water is no longer cooling the cylinders (just going out the poppet valve and not flowing through the motor properly)??? Again...just trying to understand the problem with having high water pressure as I have this exact problem on my boat/motor setup (at the current motor height). I am going to install a hydraulic jackplate in the spring. I am concerned that if I raise the motor too high to reduce the water pressure, then I run into the performance problems associated with the motor being too high. Very interesting discussion and I totally understand the ram pressure theory as I thought this is exactly what was happening on my particular boat. I really was not concerned about the pressure being high cause the motor wasn't overheating (but now you have me thinking).
    Normally this would be a question for a separate post, specific to your engine.

    Make sure your gauge reads ZERO with the engine OFF. If it does not, then you cannot believe any figure it provides, at any speed (replace it).

    In short, the job of the water traveling through your engine is to absorb and remove the heat being generated by both moving components AND combustion events (explosions). In order to absorb the energy/heat, the water must actually occupy the cooling passages for long enough to accommodate the transfer. Water PRESSURE is often a good indicator of how fast the water supply might flow THROUGH the system (think of pressure as "potential flow" for discussion purposes).

    You can get a reasonable idea or correlation by using a cast-iron frying pan to cook some eggs. Splash water across it at high velocity and then put your hand on the pan. Ok, NOT REALLY, that's gonna leave a mark!

    BUT... if you submerse the pan in water for 5-10 seconds, now you've absorbed and removed a considerable amount of the heat from the pan. Same basic principle for the water traveling through your engine block. Too little: the engine will overheat. Too much: The water can't efficiently remove the heat it needs to.

    Just something to think about... it's not "just" the mechanical or setup problems that "could" cause high pressure... it's also making sure that the cooling system can function efficiently.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 48 years (learn something new every day).
    Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor

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    #9
    Got ya...thanks for the explanation Don. Happy New Year!!!

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    #10
    That was in 55 degree lake water and about 70 degrees outside.
    Don Blume

    2018 Ranger Z520C
    2018 Mercury 250 Pro XS 2B525775 2-Stroke

    Past Rigs
    2008 Triton Tr186 with Mercury 175 Pro XS
    2000 Ranger R73 with Mercury 125
    1976 Basscat with 150 Mercury

  11. Member Especial Bryanmc57's Avatar
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    #11
    Running down the lake the poppet valve opens and water basically free flows through the engine bypassing the thermostats. What you are seeing is perfectly normal. The 1.5 psi at idle is about 1 psi low. Probably time to rebuild the water pump.


    Making good people helpless has never made bad people harmless.

  12. Mercury 3L/4 Stroke/Verado Moderator EuropeanAM's Avatar
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    #12
    ^^^^ As Bryan indicated, it's a straight-through flow of water when on plane. Consequently, on plane temps may be significantly colder than "thermostatic" temps (especially when lake water is cold).

    As long as the engine reaches operating temp AT IDLE, and returns to operating temp at idle (after coming off plane), that is how the system is designed.


    Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
    Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 48 years (learn something new every day).
    Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor

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    #13
    Thanks guys. That is a relief.
    Your right I am due for a new impeller.
    Last edited by dblume; 01-15-2021 at 11:24 PM.
    Don Blume

    2018 Ranger Z520C
    2018 Mercury 250 Pro XS 2B525775 2-Stroke

    Past Rigs
    2008 Triton Tr186 with Mercury 175 Pro XS
    2000 Ranger R73 with Mercury 125
    1976 Basscat with 150 Mercury

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