pump out questions

[Mikep79]

I have a 2005 21sx. My pump out stopped working last fall and I need to get it fixed. I have removed eveything from the back and can see the following:

1. Rule 800 GPH pumps in the hull
2. Another Rule 800 GPH pump in the hull right next to the other one
3. Aerator Pump attached to a thru hull fitting
4. Hi-Flow aerator pump attached to the back wall of the livewell
5. Rule-a-matic-plus automatic float switch

I turn on the bilge and one of the 800gph pumps turn on (I imagine the other turns on only in an automatic situation with the float switch)
I turn on the aerator and the thru hull aerator pump turns on
I turn on the Hydro and the pump attached to the back of the livewell turns on
I turn on the pump-out and nothing

Here is what the hoses are doing:
one hose comes out of the Hi-Flow aerator attached to the back wall of the livewell. That one hose is attached to the left side top with a connector to the livewell. The bilge pumps have one hose each that is routed to the drivers side which I assume go to the fittings on the top cap where the bilge water comes out. The aerator pump attached to the thru hull fitting is attached to one hose that goes to a T fitting and each side of the T fitting has a hose attached to the top of the back of the livewell. All of the above hoses look to be 1 inch hoses. However, there is one hose that I can see that appears to be a 2 inch hose. It attached to the front of the livewell with a fitting in the center of the front of the livewell and then it runs back to a thru hull fitting ( maybe the overfill line?).

Also I have a shut off valve with a hose on each end, one end goes to a thru hull fitting and the other end goes to the bottom of the livewell, close to the back wall.

I have one plug that is not being used that is labeled Pump Out. However, I have not touched anything and it was working previously. I don't get it. The plug is black plastic and has a male and female end that came from the factory. It is also marked in blue with the letter- J. The bilge pumps are conected to identical looking plugs and they are marked with a blue letters- H an G. The aerator pump attached to the thru hull fitting is connected to another identical plug and marked with a blue letter- L.

pics:

What is wrong with the pump out and which pump should I be looking at to fix this problem. If I plug one of the bilge pumps up to the plug entitled J with the tape from the factory with pump out written on it, then the bilge pump turns on. I am at a loss, please help.




Modified by Mikep79 at 2:17 PM 3/16/2010


Modified by Mikep79 at 2:18 PM 3/16/2010


Modified by Mikep79 at 2:20 PM 3/16/2010 [IMG]/IMG]

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Modified by Mikep79 at 3:07 PM 3/16/2010

[Lea]

Hang on, Mike. Someone who knows will be along shortly....

[champion_206]

I think that the pumpout should be inline with the hose for your fill/empty valve, also take a test light and check to see if the plug that is attached to nothing as you said has power when you turn on the pumpout switch on, also turn on the manual bildge, make sure what pump it is, feel it and make sure your on the right 1 thats working, feel it don't go by sound and mark it, do the same with the other 2, use your finger to get the float up so the auto works and the pump comes on, to me it looks like your short a pump, but I could be wrong, I Know the pumpout pump is in to the hose coming out of the bottom of your livewells where they empty

[btsmbass]

The nozzle on the far left that goes into the top of the livewell. See if you can go in the livewell and pull it out gently just to close the valve. It looks like you may have a flow-rite system where the recirc is also the pumpout.

Let me know what your valve control says and what position the words are in i.e. from left to right the valve control says; fill, empty, recirc.
Then I can tell which flow rite system you have and it will all play out.

[Mikep79]

I have a two position valve system. One way it is closed and the other it is open. Right now I have put water in the wells so it is closed. There is not a third position on the valve it is either open or closed. If it is open all the water runs out, closed holds the water in. This is if you look at the control outside of the bilge area.

The actual valve in the bilge area is red and it says Flow-rite control and the two positions on it say transom and livewell. Right now its on transom.

I tried pulling on the nozzle to the far left and all it does is pull the out of the housing. After I fit it back in i tried several positions before it comes out and nothing. The nozzle I am pulling on in the livewell is a 1/2 inch piece of PVC that is about a foot long and it says Flow-rite Powerstream on the side.

[Mikep79]

Champion_206,

What you say makes sense, and I would think it would need to be that way, but it worked last fall and I haven't touched it. Could I just purchase another pump and cut into the the line that is connected to the flow-rite valve (the red valve in the picture with the lawnmower wire) put a T fitting in it and then cut into one of the bilge lines and put a T in it. Then I could just hook power into the factory wiring with the J on it. Would that work or will it just screw it up somehow?

[btsmbass]

After further review I don't see a pumpout.

You have a recirc which is the valve on the far left.
The two other valves are the fast fill.
I only see one hose for the drain.

Have you had plumbing work done, because I really see no pumpout

To be able to use all the same plumbing holes in the hull and update your livewell system I would recomend upgrading to the Flow-Rite V4 system.

The hoses will remain the same, but you will add a pumpout/aerator valve to the far left and the fill will perform the same job as the pumpout and be controlled by the aerator.

To prevent overfilling you can remove one of the hoses to the highspeed fill and add a drain and through hull fitting. Then you will never over fill your wells. Then you can use the V3 system.

Checkout this website http://www.flow-rite.com/marin...alves

If there is a pumpout it is directly attached to the underside of the well and out of site and the hose is not readily visible in the pics.

I will say I am lost on this one, there is inconclusive evidence. Are there two holes in the very bottom of the well? One will have a screen and the threads the screen are using is the actual pump, or you will see a nut holding the pump in place.

[Mikep79]

btsm,

here is a pic of the inside of the livewell,

[IMG]/IMG]

opposite this on the front wall is a large hole that I think is where the 2 inch hose goes. It has a large hole with a fitting at the top of the livewell for it.

Also, about the time that the pumpout stopped working, I remember my livewell overfilling and running into the bilge.

[Mikep79]

Here's a pic of the opposite hole (wall of the livewell next to seats) with the larger flex pipe coming from it about two inches. (this two inch pipe goes to the bottom of the bilge area and exits through a thru-hull fitting like it is an overfill maybe): (Pic is upside down so think about it as hole being at the top of livewell)


[IMG]/IMG]

[btsmbass]

Alright the big hose up front is definitely loose and needs to be reattached, that is your overflow (if you are experiencing your bilge filling with well water and it is only when full).

The little screen is your recirc, the big screen is your fill/empty hose to the flow-rite valve.

How many holes are in the upper stern of your boat? I see two bilge pumps, and their hoses usually run in-line with the pumpout. I see only two hoses running under the electrical wires. The large livewell overflow goes to a through hull fitting. If you have a pumpout you will have three stern holes all next to each other.

This is a freaking conspiracy.

[Mikep79]

Four thru-hull in the back of the boat as follows:

1. from the red flow-rite valve that says transom livewell on it
2. from the aerator that is in the center back of the bilge area (i beleive this is the only one with a screen on it)
3. from the two inch hose that is depicted in the last pic.
4. The drain plug.

The bilge pumps hoses go from the pumps themselves to the topcap holes that shoot water out the side of the boat where it used to shoot when I turned the pump out on. I have 2 holes in the topcap for water to shoot out.

[champion_206]

my boat has 3 holes in the topcap,2 for bildge and 1 for pumpout, also your pumpout should be on a T, in line with the valve and the other going to the topcap for your pumpout,in fact the factory takes a T and shaves it down for the hoses to fit and it screws into the pumpout pump, I really don't see a pumpout system in your bildge, take the T where the bottom of the T is where your pump should be, when your valve is closed and you turn on the Pumpout it pumps the water out of your livewell, wish i had a picture of mine for ya, I work at a champ dealer in Michigan, most guys fix there own unless under warranty, but I did have to do mine last summer, the pump cracked but it was the cartridge type so it was a easy fix, just by looking at your very top picture, theres no pumpout pump there, if there was it would be right before your auto bildge switch, I see no pump in your livewell hose from the valve forward

[Lea]

Some systems have only 2 holes even tho they have pumpout. Evidently, this is what he has, since he says the pumpout was working previously....

[btsmbass]

I had talked to Mike extensively last night and it seems the pumpout is the second bilge pump. Maybe one system's switches were installed and another system of plumbing was installed. If you look at the pics he has a recirc, 2 bilge pumps, and a fill. There is no pumpout pump in the boat.

There is only two holes in the bottom of the well, a recirc and the drain.

There is only two hoses running to the upper cap, both bilges.

Mike can replace his empty/fill valve with a V3 or V4 (easier to install the V4) valve from flow-rite and retro fit other items pretty easily and he will have a system that will fill, recirc, and empty through the one valve. He will have to add a pumpout/aerator valve and a do a through hull fitting to the cap but that is easy. Then his switches will match his plumbing.

As far as his pumpout working there may have been other contributors to perceive it was a pumpout, that is getting taken care of also.

[Lea]

I know that you are way more knowledgeable in this than I, so I am just learning. What do you mean by "other contributors to perceive it was a pump out"?

I am not positive, but I seem to remember that Billybass had 2 holes on his topcap, but he definitely had pump-out.. I have the three..auto and manual bilge and pumpout. However, as described earlier, my livewell valve is just 2 positions... open and closed. I have two rocker switches..one is labeled Aerator and it fills well and also will circulate water in and out of well/lake. The other is the Hydro air switch which bubbles water in the well without bringing in new water from lake.

Just curious...still learning, thanks.

[btsmbass]

It all kind of made sense when we went and tracked all the plumbing and pumps.

Then Mike said he would turn on the bilge and only one went on, then hit pumpout and nothing. Well I can't find a pumpout pump. There is a fill, recirc, two bilges, and that is all the pumps.

I have a feeling one of his hoses are leaking into the bilge and that atwood float switch is junk, the slightest bit of grime and dirt and they stick it is just a plastic float switch. I have a feeling that one of his livewell hoses is leaking, and the float switch is either inoperable or stuck. Now the switches come into play, he has a pumpout switch but no pumpout pump, I have another feeling that switch is wired to the second bilge with the float. If the float ever got stuck in the up position it may have popped a fuse. Or if the switch is stuck down the pumpout switch may have been the on/off switch for the auto bilge and it only turns on when water is in the bilge, since it was dry, that may be the reason for nothing when the pumpout is turned on. Since when he was hitting the pumpout and nearly everytime it pumpes water out, there may be a leak into the bilge, or just water in the bilge when using the boat on the water.

This is all specualtion on the leaking, but there is no pumpout pump, and there are two bilge pumps, usually the second bilge even on a float switch is still wired to the main switch panel so when main power is turned on/off so is that bilge just like all other pumps. So that again tells me that pumpout switch is really the second bilge switch.

Really I would fill the bilge with water, hit the pumpout and see if the second bilge turns on.

It could be wired a little different since the panel does not match the plumbing.

I just wish I was there, it would be super easy to diagnose.

[Lea]

Did Mike ever say that his livewell emptied when he hit pump-out? Or just that water came out from "somewhere"?

[btsmbass]

If you look at the plumbing there is NO pumpout pump. I can very confidently say the water did not come from the livewell. I am not trying to sound like an a-hole but in the information I was given, I was able attribute a little human error. I did though give Mike a number to call to install a pumpout that would only require him to replace the open/close valve and lever, replace the far left valve with a pumpout/aerator valve available from flow rite, and install an additional hose and through hull fitting next to the bilge pump discharges. Then his fill will now become his pumpout also. Mike will also have to cap off his recirc pump hole in the well if he decides to go the route of the V4 flow rite system. I would also install a timer and have fresh water pumped in at whatever type timing system Mike chooses to use.

As far as the pumpout switch, I am very confident if not 100% confident that that switch is mis-labeled.

To get a better understanding of what I am saying and how the system works click here: http://www.flow-rite.com/marin...alves and check out the V4 system used mainly in Fish and ski, bay, and multi specie type boats.

[champion_206]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lea &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some systems have only 2 holes even tho they have pumpout. Evidently, this is what he has, since he says the pumpout was working previously....</TD></TR></TABLE> Evidently it's not what he has

[BamaChamp198]

I had to replace all off my pumps as they had bad seals from factory and quit working, i think the pump to the right is the pumpout( under wring ).If i understand right this all you have to do is turn each pump switch on to see what pump comes on,the one pump not making any noise is your bad pump, (unplug wire going to bad pump first)hold the body of pump and hold tabs in and turn motor housing and pull out motor . The float pump works when you turn on you power switch and only pumps when water is in the botom of boat.