Lee, please explain this..

[AllyFishing]

What is it when a prop "paddle wheels" across the surface. And what causes it..driver error, setup, prop, etc. ??

I had something occur at the rally the last day and I have been searching for the answer. I had my wife with me and we were taking a last fun run at the end of the day on nice water. About 78MPH, even with the pad, TXP OT4 26P and getting to neutral trim. The boat lifted slightly and off we went gently to the right. I mentioned this to someone and said the same happened to them and it was described as paddle wheeling.

Thanks for listening
Craig

[BARRY J]

The higher the pitch, the easier for a wheel to paddlewheel. It is when the prop wants to move the rear of the boat to the right instead of forward.

[AllyFishing]

OK, but what did I do to cause it? Is the motor too high? Does that mean that the prop is lifting the boat sufficiently? Is it giving it too much lift? Is the engine/power unable to carrry the bow thus creating the arse end to lift?

I know, I ask a lot of questions? LOL

Craig
And thanks for responding BarryJ

[BARRY J]

I think all kind of stuff can cause it. It is also called "crabbing" because it wants to move the rear of the boat sideways, like a crab crawls. The skeg has a lot to do with stopping it. I would think too high engine height and high pitch prop could cause this. This might be a good question for the props forum.

[AllyFishing]

OK, I get it now! Thanks Barry

[BARRY J]

When I know the answer to a question, I suprise myself. So many people have helped me here, I enjoy sharing what little information I have.

[Props4u2]

Craig,
If your were running a negative trim angle at 78 mph, you actually had a bow steer problem more than a paddle wheel/crabbing effect.
The prop angle will actually push up on the rear of the boat which pushs the bow down causing the bow steer/forklift effect.

[AllyFishing]

Hmmmm......interesting. I "thought" I had the bow up cuz I could hear the chattering of the pad behind me but you may be right. I'm going to try to get out today and practice the procedure you described to Manny a few weeks ago about getting the trim up first and then start working the JP up. And I'll leave the JP down a bit more to start off. I realize now that I have not been getting the right running attitude. I mentioned to catfish that I don't even have a rooster tale at all.
Thanks Lee
Craig

[The Whip]

Craig, The method Lee described to me works very well. As if there was any doubt. Although I run high trim angles (8.0-8.5) and plate about 1/4" up she behaves very well. I do use my plate a lot more. 35 hours and loving it.......

Lee, let me know when you get a prop worked out, I want to come down for a road trip.

BasSport Pro
300XS

[AllyFishing]

You guys talk about trim angle in numerics, so I am assuming it is smartcraft gauges. I don't have that just the good old fashioned needle gauge. What number would yours be at neutral trim?

I was out this afternoon practicing a bit in between all the boats and a couple of jet skiers. I left the JP at 1" below the pad and concentrated more on trimming up to and a bump or two past neutral trim and looking back to see where my roostertail was. With my TXP-OT4 26P I kept bumping up the trim and the bow kept climbing but no rooster tale?? I even bumped the JP up to 3/4" below and still none. I was running a steady 77MPH at 6000RPM's.

Went back on the trailer and put the QIV-OT 26P and started out the same way. I got the trim to neutral and a bump or two up more but the bow stopped raising so I left it and the speed climbed up to 79.9 at 6200RPM's! As the speed increased I noticed the bow lower a tad and after wards figured that was cuz of the back end lifting?/ Was that why? I didn't raise the JP higher than 1" below with the trim up a bump or two past neutral cuz everything was feeling very light and slippery!!

Besides, I would get a nice stretch and I would see a boat coming at me so I would have to back off once I get on it. And a friggin jet skier kept following me around most of the time. I was ready to run his arse over soon if he didn't stop his chit!!

this boat hits 75MPH in a heartbeat!! I just needed enough running room (which I didn't have today) to be able to feel comfortable long enough to bump the JP up while up at those speeds. I'll bet this thing has at least another 5MPH in it if I get the balz and the room to get the plate up a bit more.

Oh, and at around 70 going up to it and coming back dwon to it, it felt like somthing was holding the hull back and then letting go and then holding back like surging or something. It was not he engine and the tach did not rev up either just like it was getting stuck to the water and the steering at the same time would go light. Weird!

Sorry for the book...this is getting fun...didn't play like this since spring!

[AllyFishing]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by The Whip &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Craig, The method Lee described to me works very well. As if there was any doubt. Although I run high trim angles (8.0-8.5) and plate about 1/4" up she behaves very well. I do use my plate a lot more. 35 hours and loving it.......

Lee, let me know when you get a prop worked out, I want to come down for a road trip.

BasSport Pro
300XS</td></tr></table>

Hey Whip...would "5" on your trim gauge be neutral trim ie propshaft level to the pad? If so how many more bumps up on the trim lever to get to "7"?

You have a great idea for a road trip there. Get some guys together for some prop testing......I'd go for that!

[F2008]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by AllyFishing &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">....... I just needed enough running room (which I didn't have today) to be able to feel comfortable long enough to bump the JP up while up at those speeds. I'll bet this thing has at least another 5MPH in it if I get the balz and the room to get the plate up a bit more.</td></tr></table>

Come on up, the Hudson River is fairly long .... or we can head up to Champlain. I promise I won't pass you, ......except a couple of times.

[prophydro]

Craig,
Roostertail is going to be more of Jackplate height than trim. If you trim an Allison so much as to get a roostertail, the set up is wrong PERIOD...As I told you yesterday, the TXP runs better in a Non surfacing application, as The QIV OT is better at the surface(or near) 1" below for that prop is not going to get you where you want to be. At that height you have the boat gearcase combo working against the prop, for what it wants to do.Also as I told you yesterday, and today you have 3-400 rpms sitting there in motor height, and 4-6 mph in speed. Regardless of who or what you want to ask, 1" below is not going to cut it on that set up...TRUST ME Get that thing up here so we can get it dialed in. Offer still stands anytime !!!!

TBuck

[xb03fs]

On my xb2003 the boat seems to feel stuck both when I am too high and when I am too low it that makes sense, granted I am not going as fast as some but there is about a quarter to a half inch area where it feels best.

If I run where I like it by myself it feels stuck with 3 people in the boat and requires more trim, if I run it by myself were it like to run with 3 in the boat it feels stuck

The way I have been doing it is when I am first out with whatever load I have, I start where it feels good by myself, and get up to about 50 at conservative trim, then I keep bumping the trim down until it feels like it is lifting better, and then hammer down and start bumping the trim.

Not sure if this is the right way, but I havnt hooked or blown out yet.......

[F2008]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by prophydro &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">...... Get that thing up here so we can get it dialed in. Offer still stands anytime !!!! TBuck</td></tr></table>

Can't beat an offer like that buddy.

[xb03fs]

would love to be close enough to todd to take him up on an offer like that Just talking to him on the phone is great and I always enjoy it. He always has time to talk even though I only have bought one of his demo props and some ACES

[jimbob88]

I've had a few lengthy talks with Todd. He will listen To what you have, what you plan to do with it, and help you achieve your goals and then some. Met him and his dad in July. They are the real deal! Will be getting my third prop from them this winter. You can't go wrong with their props, and service that comes with it! Jim

[AllyFishing]

TBuck
I do TRUST you. And I understand more now about what happened with the "Paddle Wheeling" or "Bow Steer" event I had. The TXP OT4 26P probably had a bit to do with it as did the fact that I have been either trying to get top speed & RPM's by either having the JP up at the right height (even with the pad) and not getting enough trim applied OR like the other day trimmed up more (to just past neutral and really feeling the bow up) than in the past but then having a totally different feeling during the ride that I was hesitant (OK...scared) to raise the JP more to really get her up to top speed and RPM's. I admit I read too much and try to analyze everything I read and what happens that I may make it harder than it should be. I guess its the way I am able to process things!

BUT, what I was really happy about this time is that I had control and no wobbling at all and drove easy.

I will plan a road trip out to Ohio after Labor Day when my time is more freed up. I can't pass that kind of offer up! Thanks for putting up with me!
Craig

[Landar]

I agree with prophydro (Todd). I run my XB-21 2 seater at about 1/2" above the pad almost all of the time. I can't shoot a roostertail at that height with any prop. A TXP drives stable on my boat but overall I don't think they do anything really good. TXP's are just hard to turn. I like my Bravo 1 XS pretty good. I'm thinking about moving my trolling batteries back to the front deck where they were when my boat was new. My boat is so ass heavy that it is hard to get out of the hole with any prop other than the bravo. I still think a Pro et would be a great prop on your boat if you can keep it in one piece. However, I plan to by another X-OB if I ever get enough $$$.

[The Whip]

Craig.. I would like to plan a trip with you to see Todd. I am almost comfortable now with my boat that I think I want to try some different props. When is your labor day holiday?

Todd, in the spring when I first talked to you, you mentioned a prop for my set up.
BasSport Pro 300XS. Would you have a couple of o/b, o/t in 27p or 28p or29p that I can test and purchase.

Manny