Optimax not start I´m desperate

[frodo]

Hi, I´m from Spain, I have a Mercury optimax 200cv 1999, have 220 hours, the motor was stoped from 8 years.
I change the fuel pumps, the sparks, the cracked sensor.
The motor start and run medium right for 9 months, until enter water in the fuel tank, then:
The motor start and run very bad.
The motor Off and not run more snifff, snifff, i´m crying.
Clean the fuel pump, injectors, sparks, cylinders, checked fuse, etc
The mecanics put the Mercury diagnostic software, in the motor and checked all. Say that all is OK.
Only say error in Lamp.
When try to start the motor with the key the Mecanic say that haven´t light in the Sparks and not start for haven´t fire,
but when conect the computer whith the software, the mecanics say that then has light, but not start.
The mecanics: two diferent, one of the oficial service has no idea that what is the problem, and the other say that think in the 70% is the ECU, but not is sure. The 2 mecanics checked for separated the motor.
Today I stay with the mechanic in the boat, we check that has 12,7v ( we put new wire and new battery ), the air, fuel pressure and the compression, that´s all OK, but the engine Not start. Has Only once made a little explosion the second turn of the key, after only crank but nothing more.
The mechanic say that only have spark (fire,light) in the 2 sparkplugs of the bottom, the other 4 sparkplugs haven´t spark, but the mechanic has No idea of the problem why not start.
Please any more ideas ? Here in Spain the mercury mechanics say me that not know which might be the problem, and laughs, that the best thing that I would be buy another.
I´m desperated I have the boat Stop from 3 months, and nobody has idea that what is the problem.
ANY IDEA?
Very, Very thanks for your help

[EuropeanAM]

IF the engine now has spark on TWO cyl's... we can rule out the Crankshaft Position Sensor, and the fuse.

There are coil drivers mounted on top of the ignition coils- they may be failed (as may the coils).

Try removing the driver from the two cyl's that have spark, and moving it to the upper set of coils. If, after doing this, you have spark on the "upper" cyl's (but not on the lower ones), you've got bad coil drivers.

The only time I've seen more than one driver fail at the same time was in a case of "reverse polarity" (the battery had been connected backwards)... and there were other problems as well.

Try swapping these and see what happens........

[frodo]

Hi, again. I 've proven what I said and to change the connection (with 3 wires colours brown with line, green with line and black) from bottom box (I suposse that is the coil, put 850227 in the box) to upper box, then the plugspark of the upper has spark, but when i change the connection of the upper box to the bottom one, the plugspark of the bottom hasn´t spark. I suposse that all the boxes ( 850227 ) are right, the problem come to the wires, that haven´t electricity or not send the right order. Only are right the 2 wires of the bottom.
I have problem to explain, if you dont understand something, please say me.
I don´t know more.
Thanks for your time and for your help.
Please any idea?

[EuropeanAM]

That does sound "suspect" of an ECM failure. I'd like to check a wiring schematic next monday when I get back to the office.

Can you provide your serial number???

[frodo]

Of course, the serial number is G 899174.
Thank you very, very much.
You are my last hope.

[frodo]

Of course, the serial number is G 899174.
Thank you very, very much.
You are my last hope.

[EuropeanAM]

Frodo:

Two things I'd like you to check, please.

Disconnect the three pin plugs from ALL SIX ignition coils.

With an DVOM, check continuity between each "black" wire and block ground. You should have a clean connection to battery negative cable, with no resistance. If resistance is present, locate and repair defective ground (there are two grounds for the ignition coils, one on each side). These can be deceiving... they may look ok. Remove the ring terminal(s) from the bolt, tug on the wires and make sure they are secure in the ring terminal. Clean any corroded terminals (or replace).

Now, set to DC Volts, check voltage between Red/Yellow wire and Black Wire at each connector (key on). Any substanital variance in voltage may indicate a harness or fuse problem (you're looking for battery voltage).

If both of the above test ok, reconnect all coils. Disconnect ONE COIL AT A TIME, and recheck for spark. If at any time you note spark on "more coils than you started with", you have likely disconnected "a shorted ignition coil" that will need replacement.

If none of the above solve your issue, it is indeed likely that you have a failed ECM. Good luck- and let us know how you come out!

[frodo]

Hi, again . Thanks very much for your help. The mecanics has not check all you say by time, but I find a 2000-mercury 225hp optimax DFI ECM, 200 hp optimax DFI ECM BOX, and i want to know if is possible to put this one in my 1999 200hp DFI optimax, I have the serial number of the 225 hp ECM is 858891 29 .
Thanks at all.
David


Modified by frodo at 10:17 AM 12/15/2008

[EuropeanAM]

200 to 200 is fine.

Don't mix the 200 and 225 motor ECM's... they are different engines.

[frodo]

Hi, and thanks very, very much EuropeanAm. I´m very happy, the enginer is ON. After see all you say me and in the last watch, we saw that the Cranck sensor position,( that I change and the Official service say me that is in the right position), is in wrong position for little mm and this is the cause of not Start. Now the engine not up 3.500 rp and not up 21 Knts, I suposse that is for the distance betwen the crank sensor and the plate, because we regulate it with hand and not precission, If you can say me the perfect, right measurement distance betwen it, Or if you think is possible other cause for this ?.
Thanks very, very much and happy new year my friends
David

[EuropeanAM]

Set the air gap at .040"

Note: An irratic (or damaged) CPS can break down around 3000 RPM's... so if it's still acting up after you reset the air gap, TRY ANOTHER SENSOR, gapped properly.

[frodo]

Hi again my friends, I can´t use my boat by works until the past week, and I have three problems:
1- The enginer up to 4800 rpm but not up to 27 knts.
2- When I force the throtle to max then jump off the second fuse ( 20 ) starting by down where there are four fuse in the side where is the ECU,then the enginer stop, the power trim not go, not start, nothing. Put another fuse and all is right and on again.
3- The consume on fuel is very very very very high, is aprox. 2 liters by mile, going to 3.000 rpm and 17 knts. ( When we put the enginer on 1 year ago, the fuel´s pumps are broken, and we change the 2 fuel pump, the first fuel pump (8558432FUEL PUMP) put the original, but the second fuel pump (855427A1 fuel pump kit) not change by the original because a mechanic say us that is the same other ful pump, and then we put a TRE-340 255 LPH Fuel Pump, and not sure if this is the cause of the high consume?.
I not sure if I say you that my boat is a Narwhal hd 750, that has a weight aprox of 900 kg.
Can you say me what you think wich can be the problems.
Thnaks very, very much.
Best regards, David

[EuropeanAM]

David:

Sorry... I read back through the post to refresh my memory.

Has this engine EVER run properly on this boat? The reason I ask this, is that you may be over-propped, and "overloading the engine".

This would prevent you from reaching the target RPM range (5500-5600), and would also account for very high fuel consumption.

I wouldn't recommend "jumpering" around on the fuses any more... simply the fact that the fuse blew when you did it, tells me that you created a "short circuit".

Also, we need to check your AIR AND FUEL PRESSURE, at idle, and at Wide Open Throttle (under load, boat in water and in gear). We're looking for 80 psi Air Pressure and 90 Psi Fuel pressure (+/- 2 psi) to be CONSTANT at all engine speeds. If your results fall into this range, we can probably rule out an issue with the fuel pump that you installed. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the numbers of the pump you described... only with the Mercury Fuel Pumps.

[frodo]

Hi, and thanks for your patience.
The boat run one time ( only one time, from this time run max 32knts and now 27 knts) to 46 knts to 5.500 rpm
The enginer have a New Mercury Propeller ALPHA4 Diameter 14, Pitch 20.
The Fuse Jump all times that I pull the Throttle to max. I have a Box of fuse always in the boat;)
The numbers of the Fuel pump I say you are the Originals, I confuse you with the Other Pump.
I forgot tell you , that the mecanics say me that They think that the thermostates not are OK, and I must to change it. But I have not even changed them.
With this Information, have you any idea more ?
Thanks very, very much.
One friend David

[EuropeanAM]

Can you possibly take a picture of the fuse holder, and indicate WHICH FUSE is blowing? This is very important... I want to make sure we're not on a "wild goose chase" checking for a fuel pump issue... when the problem MIGHT be on another circuit! At the very least, I would need to know "what number position" (not the amperage rating) the fuse is.

Of course, I'm assuming that you meant the fuse is "blowing" (and not actually jumping).

Hang in there... we'll do everything we can to help!

[frodo]

Hi, I take a picture of the Fuse zone,.
Tell me something when you can.
Very, very thanks
[IMG][/IMG]

[EuropeanAM]

Now we might be getting somewhere!

Let's verify that we're on the correct fuse- and that someone hasn't "swapped the fuse holders around".

First, remove the fuse in question from it's fuse holder. From your picture, it appears to be the #3 fuse (counting from the top).

With the fuse "removed", confirm that you have:

-No power at the ignition switch- nothing happens when you turn the key "on", OR to the "start" position.

-The trim switch (mounted on the engine cowling) does not function.

Report back what you find... and we'll go from there.

[frodo]

Yes, when I remove the fuse happen all you say me.
Thanks very much

[EuropeanAM]

Ok! That would indicate that you have short occuring in one of the following:

1. Keyswitch or harness (including the control, if the keyswitch is inside the control housing).

2. Starter solenoid issue (solenoid attempting to engage the starter while the engine is running).

3. Engine wiring harness (a short between battery power on that circuit, and ground).

4. Trim switch on engine cowling or it's wiring shorting while engine is running.

5. Trim switch in CONTROL HANDLE (or it's wiring) shorting.

These problem will need to be "manually" dianosed by someone well experienced in the locating of electrical short circuits. There are multiple wiring diagrams in the Factory Service Manual (Part# 90-855348R02) which cover this engine, the keyswtich and harness, and the control wiring.

The fuse in question is NOT related to the fuel pumps (except that these items are powered through the main power relay via a power signal sent from the ignition switch).

Good luck- I hope this has helped to "get you on the right track".

[frodo]

Hi again my friend, Very Thanks EuropeanAM, I look the problem of the Short in the Control handle, the mechanics put it bad and one wire was cut by the cover
By other part, I have the same problem: the boat only run 25 Knots at 4700 rrpm, and the consume of fuel is highest, about 2,5 liters for mile. The mechanic say to me that checking with the computer can regulate the speed and the consume, It´s possible or is other thing to make me lost money and time.
Thanks